GEBE or Staton?

[Warner]

I've narrowed my kit choice down to two vendors. I'm currently leaning toward one over the other though. I would be going with a 2 stroke engine
(40cc Tanaka with the GEBE and 43cc Mitsubishi with the Staton). I would use the Chain drive kit from Staton, WITHOUT the expensive NuVinci deal. Does anyone have any opinions about or experience with either kit/vendor? GEBE was quick to get back to my first e-mail, but hasn't yet responded to my 2nd. Staton responded to my e-mail but was very brief, basically telling me to check their website or call them to discuss. So I called today and left a message with my phone number (talked to a person, not a machine) but never got a call back. So I suppose these companies are pretty busy. My first impressions of their products are as follows:

GEBE - Simple to install, probably less durable than the Staton kit

Staton - More difficult to install, but I REALLY like the idea of their gearbox and chain drive system - seems relatively bulletproof.


I have the bike I'm going to use for the conversion. It's been in my garage for years and I went out and put air in the tires tonight and rode it a bit...it's a pretty NICE bike actually! It's a Trek 920 Singletrack with the grip shifters. Not too heavy (32 pounds I think) and is much higher quality (made in USA) than the wal-mart stuff. Should make a good finished product! I'm going to put the narrow smoothies on it to make it really roll good. I bet it'll be fast with either kit that I go with!


Looking forward to all of your opinions!

Warner

 

[Warner]

I don't recall ever reading any posts about the ring tearing thru spokes. Not saying it's never happened, tho...

I was considering a GEBE kit at one point, but I think my first actual build will be a Staton one day. I'm partial to rack-mounted 2-strokes that can freewheel so you can coast smoothly & don't have to mess with a clutch.

I'll definitely be saving up for the NuVinci, tho (it's gonna take me a few months at least). I will never buy a bike with derailers ever again. It's either a BMX or Nuvinci's CVP hub. Problem with using most internally geared hubs is that they can't handle the torque of these engines. But the NuVinci is special. Due to the way it's designed, you can smoothly shift input/output ratios of just the engine, just pedal-power, or both of them combined. It's not just for hills & bridges, but for pedaling too!! I've always had problems with derailers, even when adjusting them... but nothing slips or jerks with NuVinci. Ahh.... maybe for Christmas.

NuVinci Hubs:
On flat ground, I don't really see the advantage to the NuVinci really unless you REALLY flat out just don't want to pedal at all. If it were free maybe, but for $350 or so it's not worth it to me where I live and how I intend to ride. Everyone has their own opinion though. It's definitely up there on the "cool" scale, but not so far up on the "practical" scale for my intented usage.


GEBE and broken spokes:
This isn't the only place I've read about it happening, but here's one thread that talks about it a bit:

http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=9305

Warner

 

[loquin]

I would think that an internal hub could stand up to the small motors we're talking about, just fine... (a 4 hp motor, or greater, might be a problem, though)

After all, I can easily put 150 foot-pounds into peddling when I stand up. Whereas a 1.6 HP Robbins-Suburu maxes at about 1.3 foot pounds at 5500 rpm, or , if you step the RPM down to 100, about 70 foot-pounds. And, it's smooth power - not pulsing, like the torque produced by peddling would be.

 

[Warner]

I would think that an internal hub could stand up to the small motors we're talking about, just fine... (a 4 hp motor, or greater, might be a problem, though)

After all, I can easily put 150 foot-pounds into peddling when I stand up. Whereas a 1.6 HP Robbins-Suburu maxes at about 1.3 foot pounds at 5500 rpm, or , if you step the RPM down to 100, about 70 foot-pounds. And, it's smooth power - not pulsing, like the torque produced by peddling would be.

I agree 100%. I don't think there's any way these little engines can put more torque on the parts (properly applied!) than we do with our legs and body weight. Like you said, once you get up to around 4hp it's probably a different story. Just imagine if the chain that runs from the crank chainring (the one that we pedal) were attached to a ring that attached to the spokes....I think we'd rip the spokes apart in VERY short order.

Warner

 

[Warner]

After careful consideration, and after talking to David Staton last night, I am sure that my choice will be a Staton kit. I'll go with the OUTSIDE chain drive kit (their standard kit) with the Mitsubishi 43cc (2.2 HP) engine. I will also buy their 48 spoke, 26x1 beefed up back wheel (all laced up and ready to go) since I will be rolling on 1.25" tires for better (less) rolling resistance (both for the engine and when I'm pedaling). I will also opt for a pretty tall gear ratio as well. I don't mind, and actually WANT to pedal to get things going. I'm fine with getting up to 10mph or so before applying the throttle if it means I can cruise at 35mph. I think with the good starting bicycle (Trek 920 - about 32 pounds even with the fat tires that are on it now) and the skinny tires (I ordered the Forté Fast City ST/K MTB Tires for $12 a piece from Performance Bicycle) the bike should be much easier to get and keep moving than a balloon tired beach cruiser. I know from my own riding experience that on a good road bike I was able to average about 5mph more than I could on a mountain bike with knobby tires, so the engine should have the same result as long as the gearing supports a higher speed. I'd like the bike to be able to do 40mph top speed, with a cruise speed of 35mph. I think that's totally feasible as long as I'm willing to pedal to get things going (which I am). Not that I would, but with the totally freewheeling hub that the Staton kit has, I COULD pedal the bike to go even faster without over-revving the engine. Okay...now that I've made my decision, I have to satisfy "the committee" (my wife) who has a couple of rules for me before I can buy the kit. I have to pay off our credit card (about $3,500) and sell one toy (which will be the go kart, which SHOULD pay for my kit - it's a $2,500 go kart that should sell for around a grand I would think).

Wish me luck!

Warner

 

[SirJakesus]

I don't know if a 35mph cruising speed is a great idea. Bicycles get kind of squirrelly at high speeds especially without a suspension. A 25mph cruising speed with 30mph top speed is the probably the safer way to ride.

 

[Warner]

I don't know if a 35mph cruising speed is a great idea. Bicycles get kind of squirrelly at high speeds especially without a suspension. A 25mph cruising speed with 30mph top speed is the probably the safer way to ride.

Maybe you're right. I know I used to hit 50mph on downhills on my road bike though.....it WAS fast, but manageable. I used to be on an inline speedskating team and we'd cross train on our road bikes sometimes. In one speedskating marathon, I averaged 19mph on my skates for 26.2 miles. But that was 10 years ago when I was in much better shape. Not that I couldn't get there again, but I don't have the TIME to skate 25 miles a day anymore! I also used to race (and ride for fun) motorcycles. I'd go from 0-130 in under 11 seconds. It's amazing how you get used to the power though....I remember feeling like I could handle so much more. Haha! I'll just play it by ear...we'll see....


Warner

 

[sparky]

I would think that an internal hub could stand up to the small motors we're talking about, just fine... (a 4 hp motor, or greater, might be a problem, though)

After all, I can easily put 150 foot-pounds into peddling when I stand up. Whereas a 1.6 HP Robbins-Suburu maxes at about 1.3 foot pounds at 5500 rpm, or , if you step the RPM down to 100, about 70 foot-pounds. And, it's smooth power - not pulsing, like the torque produced by peddling would be.

You're right... it's prolly not the torque, but it prolly IS the sustained speeds/friction. People who have tried internal gears have said they fail with motors attached to 'em. Are they shifting while giving it gas?? I dunno... but that's not the way internal gears are supposed to be shifted. You're supposed to let off the throttle or quit pedaling in order to shift internal gears due to the way their designed.

The NuVinci hub, OTOH, doesn't need you to let off the gas/pedals. All I was trying to explain to Warner is that the NuVinci helps with pedaling as he was asking. I'm getting one because it provides just the right amount of resistance I need from a dead stop to max speed for pedaling. If you pedal & give some gas, there's still always the right amount of resistance and no feeling of shifting... it's all smooth. I haven't used it yet, but I'm sure it's worth the ~$350 extra for your everyday transportation. That's why I'm buying it.

But to each his own!

 

[Warner]

It's not for me....but then I WANT to do some pedaling and I don't live in a hilly area. At this point it's a moot point since the legality of the MAB's in my area is not favorable. My city and at least two of the neighboring cities seem to have ordinances that specifically ban them! I'm sure these laws were created to stop kids from running all over with their electric and gas
go-peds (scooters). I'm in the (probably long and fruitless) process of trying to open some of their minds to the MAB as a legitimate transportation vehicle. I've e-mailed the city mayor and all of the councilmen....heard back from exactly ONE councilman with the reply of: "I've forwarded your e-mail on to our legal department, as they are better suited to handle your problem" whatever that means. If I'm not mistaken, I thought that it was the council members that would raise suggestions about changes to ordinances.....Hmmmm....


Warner

 

[jimmyglitter]

I went with the Staton kit after careful deliberation. I am sure glad I did. The bike feels like a motorcycle. Nice and responsive and smooth.

 

[sjackson]

It's not for me....but then I WANT to do some pedaling and I don't live in a hilly area. At this point it's a moot point since the legality of the MAB's in my area is not favorable. My city and at least two of the neighboring cities seem to have ordinances that specifically ban them! I'm sure these laws were created to stop kids from running all over with their electric and gas
go-peds (scooters). I'm in the (probably long and fruitless) process of trying to open some of their minds to the MAB as a legitimate transportation vehicle. I've e-mailed the city mayor and all of the councilmen....heard back from exactly ONE councilman with the reply of: "I've forwarded your e-mail on to our legal department, as they are better suited to handle your problem" whatever that means. If I'm not mistaken, I thought that it was the council members that would raise suggestions about changes to ordinances.....Hmmmm....


Warner

Warner, where are you? I'm in Morton Grove and haven't checked my local ordinances yet... probably should have done that before ordering a bunch of stuff.


ETA: Nevermind... I found your posts on the other forum when searching for the laws myself. That sucks that Elgin is so strict about it. Thankfully Morton Grove looks like it's still using municipal code from back when this was a farming community. Good news is I can drive a tractor on the main roads if I want to. Now I just need to check out Niles, Skokie and Lincolnwood to see if I'll have any problems there.