MAB's obsolete soon?????

[Mugrim]

Pretty much. The energy required to split water into hydrogen and oxygen can NEVER exceed the energy obtained from burning that same hydrogen and oxygen. Since electrical wires have resistance, and motors aren't 100 percent efficient, you can never get out as much energy as you put in. Otherwise, you would have a perpetual motion machine.

These things always seem like such awful snake oil. Even if there was an evil US conspiracy to keep something like this away, they'd just produce it somewhere that doesn't care and ship it here like we do with all sorts of other patented ideas.

Europe has miraculously managed to have safe small vehicles that get from 40 - 55+ mpg without hybrid tech. Our only real issue seems to be that we don't embrace smaller vehicles like this or embrace alternate vehicles like motorized bikes and scooters.

 

[Large Filipino]

The problem is that when someone finally figures it out they get greedy and try to profit from it which is cool but then sell it to the big wigs and now they have the patent to it and it's dead.
I say patent it yourself then share it with others. That way the big companies can't patent your design and everyone will build these things in their garage.

 

[SirJakesus]

Scientific "laws" and theories have been proven wrong countless times over the generations, I do not accept that the laws of thermodynamics are absolute and infallible. The only laws that prove themselves true time and time again are the laws of economics.
I always love it how people say "conspiracy theorist" with such contempt and actually believe that anybody who believes in the fact that conspiracies happen are fruitcakes or nutjobs. Fact is conspiracies happen all the time. There are countless revolting and downright disgusting crimes our governments and their corporate handlers commit constantly as a matter of routine business.
Go to a library and find some old copies of popular mechanics/science and check out some patent listings. Lots of amazing stuff has been made, bought and shelved until it's time has come to be most profitable for the large companies and people who own practically everything in the world. A good example is platinum spark plugs. They were invented and viable about 30 years before the patent holder decided to start producing them... and why? Before the 100k mile platinum plugs you had to change your plugs every 10k miles or so.

 

[kerf]

Hey Large, with gas at $4.20 a gallon, if GM or Ford had a 80 mpg car, do you think they would be selling them. If memory serves, car sales are in the tank. And one other thing, PROFIT is not a dirty word, it's the reason more people live better here than anywhere in the history of the world.

 

[SirJakesus]

Hey Large, with gas at $4.20 a gallon, if GM or Ford had a 80 mpg car, do you think they would be selling them. If memory serves, car sales are in the tank. And one other thing, PROFIT is not a dirty word, it's the reason more people live better here than anywhere in the history of the world.

And what about the "third" world that routinely sees our bombs and puppet dictators? Sure our standard of living is great as long as you admit to yourself that the system is set up to make you into a debt slave. What a fantastic way to live.

 

[Mugrim]

Hey Large, with gas at $4.20 a gallon, if GM or Ford had a 80 mpg car, do you think they would be selling them. If memory serves, car sales are in the tank. And one other thing, PROFIT is not a dirty word, it's the reason more people live better here than anywhere in the history of the world.

The ford Ka gets 45 mpg and isn't available in the US.

http://www.ford.co.uk/safari/ka/-/co2_model_ka/-/-/-/-

 

[kerf]

SirJakesus, if you're in debt, I'm sorry but it does take awhile to to establish yourself. Me, I'm debt free but I still get up every day and bust my old a$$, that is what makes America work. When you get a few more years down the road you will understand much more than you do now. I remember being young and confused, I wouldn't go back unless I could know what I know now.

Mugrim, why don't you write Ford and ask why, the reasons might surprise you.

 

[Mugrim]

Mugrim, why don't you write Ford and ask why, the reasons might surprise you.

There hasn't been a market for it. American's like big landboats and every major brand knows it's bad for their name if they make a car that is too small.

Market research has dictated against it and with gas being so cheap for so long there wasn't a lot of reason to risk losing customers. Many vehicles actually get worse gas milage than older versions of the same model and this is partly linked to it.

You can get away with 1 - 1.5 liter engines no problem but people really don't want to buy a small car, until recently that is.

Of course I've heard rumors about the ka and several other affordable commuter cars coming to the states so who knows.

by the way, in economics and any social science, a correlation coefficient above .6 usually means something significant and about .7 is considered reliable. In hard sciences you're looking at .95+ before something is considered reliable if i remember correctly, and that includes physics. Thermodynamics is far more predictable than economics ever will be, otherwise making a profit in the US off trading over a short period would be a nearly guaranteed and easy route to financial success. It is not and many lose their money. For it to be as predictable as physics you'd have to be able to create a formula that will tell me with 95+% reliability what future conditions will be to be on par with physics.

 

[kerf]

I would say you're probably correct about the market but there are many economy models doing very well here. I heard the Smart Car was about to hit the American market and the Mini has been available for some time. There could be safety standard issues with the Ford, the governmental red tape is unbelievable.

Physics may not be as reliable as you think, for some time I've pondered if time actually exist of if is just a component we use to understand the universe. If time doesn't exist, relativity and most of science is wrong. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Mugrim]

I would say you're probably correct about the market but there are many economy models doing very well here. I heard the Smart Car was about to hit the American market and the Mini has been available for some time. There could be safety standard issues with the Ford, the governmental red tape is unbelievable.

Most european cars are crash tested at higher standards than ours.

Here's a list of fuel efficiencies for American cars, then compare to European cars that routinely get 45 - 55. They also get crash tested at higher standards as well.

Malibu - BEST option 21/29 (4cyl)
Cobalt - BEST option 22/31
Aveo - BEST option 22/32
Focus - BEST option 22/31
Fusion - BEST option 21/29
(Saturn)Astra (2008) - BEST option 24/32

Here's a list of crash test ratings from a forum I Frequent.

http://www.euroncap.com/supermini.aspx
http://www.euroncap.com/small_family_car.aspx

(sold on the North American market)
Audi A3 ****
BMW Mini *****
Chevrolet Aveo **
Ford Focus ****
Honda Fit ****
Honda Civic ****
Kia Rio ****
Mazda 3 ****
Suzuki SX4 ****
Toyota Yaris *****
Volkswagen Golf *****

(not sold in North America)
Audi A2 ****
Citroen C3 ****
Citroen C4 *****
Dacia Logan ***
Fiat 500 *****
Fiat Gr. Punto *****
Ford Fiesta ****
Kia cee'd *****
Mazda 2 *****
Ford Ka ***
Mercedes A-cl. *****
Mitsubishi Colt ****
Nissan Micra ****
Nissan Note ****
Opel Corsa *****
Peugeot 207 *****
Peugeot 308 *****
Renault Clio *****
Renault Scenic *****
Renault Megane *****
Suzuki Swift ****
Volkswagen Polo ****

And whether you chose to believe in physics matters about as much as whether you chose to believe you have a million dollars. If something is tested reliably multiple times without major incident, it is said to be more reliable than something that can't meet those standards.

Gasoline is a fine fuel and has great energy density. We just throw it away and don't have an infrastructure built around efficiency and public transportation/small vehicles.