Sidecover bearings

[Quenton Guenther]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

The original Whizzer company supported the right side of the crankshaft with a Torrington needle bearing mounted in the sidecover. The WC-1 new edition motor used a similar needle bearing. The NE motors sported a new sidecover that was thicker so that allen screws could be used to attach it to the crankcase. The original Whizzer used different thickness spacers to keep the crankshaft centered, the new company didn't make any provisions to keep it centered. Often on the new generation motors the crankshaft will move sideways, but usually isn't a real serious problem [unless you are running at "Bonneville"].

I have 3 motors on my bench from owners to rebuild. One is a WC-1 with a Westman cylinder, and the crankshaft is "solid". The second motor is a 2006 NE, and the crankshaft moves approx. 1/8" side to side. The third motor is a 2008 NE, and the crankshaft "wobbles" and moves from side to side approx. 3/8". The play on the 2008 was way too much, so I removed the side cover to see what I needed to do, and to my surprize, the German needle bearing wasn't there, instead a #6904 ball bearing was mounted in the side cover. The bearing was so loose in the cover it fell out when I turned the cover over.
I was still in shock that the quality needle bearing had been replaced with thin ball bearing. I quickly located my bearing book and looked up the number, sadly here are the facts. The bearing is called an "Extremely Light Plain Ball Bearing" and has a very, very, very low rating of 1824 @ 1000 RPMs. The original needle bearing is 12 MM wide, whereas the replacement is only 9 MM wide. Not only is the new bearing much thinner, but it is recessed deeply into the side cover. They also located 4 washers on the end of the crankshaft to help make up the extra space, but only a part of the crankshaft rides inside the bearing [very little support]. The earlier NE motors that used the needle bearing enjoyed complete crankshaft support and a bearing that was rated with a load capacity of 12100 [static], about 15 times better than the current ball bearing.

Was the bearing downgraded because of money? I have never had a problem with the Vintage needle bearing, I have never had a problem with needle bearing in any of the new edition motor. I will post several photos to show what I found.

Have fun,

 

[KilroyCD]

Incredible. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the ball bearing will ultimately fail, and then what kind of catastrophic damage might follow?

 

[go-rebels]

Who are the Engineers in Taiwan that approved this change! I can hardly believe that there is any type of Engineering Change "process" by which there is an analysis made and some "Chief" engineer ultimately signs off on the request.

The cost of such lack of control is warranty $$$ and disgruntled customers. What must the head office in Texas be thinking (assuming that all warranty repairs don't go directly to Quenton (!)?

 

[Mountainman]

wooo is me -- a simple comment to make from up top the old mountain

it does make one wonder -- what the heck is going on

usually we wish to improve THINGS so as to be even stronger

going in the other direction does not make sense in the long run

I want my motor bike THING to be sturdy

 

[RdKryton]

I am sooooo glad I have the needle bearings. With the added power I have from the upgrades that have been done I don't believe the ball bearings would hold up in my engine. I may be wrong but I don't want to find out the hard way.

Jim

 

[august]

I just took the side cover off of the NE R model I just got.

The bearing is the cheap model, but it doesn't seem to be as deep as what Quenton has found.

By my measurement, when my cover is firmly seated, the crankshaft is all the way through the bearing.

I determined this by holding the bearing, while still installed in the cover up against the end of the crankshaft. With the end of the shaft just starting into the bearing, I measured the distance between the cover and the crankcase, and had over 9 mm distance.

I would go ahead and replace the bearing with a good one, but I can't get the old one out. I tried heating the cover, but there is no place to get any kind of a wedge under the bearing to lift it out of the cover.

I could use some suggestions as to how to remove the bearing without doing any damage to the cover . This bearing is certainly not as loose as the ones Quenton described.

Also , my crankshaft has a shoulder on it to prevent movement I think.

I have added some pictures for your enjoyment.

As a side note to Quenton, I called Dave about my starting problem which I have bugged the H#ll out of you about, and he is going to send me another carburetor to try.

August ( Jack Waechter)

http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/...=view&current=whizzercrankshaftbearing003.jpg

http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/...=view&current=whizzercrankshaftbearing005.jpg

http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/...=view&current=whizzercrankshaftbearing007.jpg

http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/...=view&current=whizzercrankshaftbearing006.jpg

 

[Quenton Guenther]

Hi August,

It seems new Whizzers are somewhat like the weather, if you wait long enough it will change. Thank you for taking pictures and sharing them with us.
I was hoping [wishful thinking] that the 2008 NE motor I was working on was just a case of Joe in Taiwan running out of good bearings and grabbing anything he could make work. But after seeing your crankshaft it is clear that the motor I have was just a link in the evolution of the NE motor. The motor I am working on has 4 spacers between the crankshaft gear and the bearing, whereas your motor has the end of the crankshaft "machined" with a ledge to replace the spacers. Of course this opens the door to ask several new questions. Is the bearing in the side cover the same as the one I have? Does the gear on the crankshaft have a larger I.D. than all the previous motors? Is the crankshaft bearing race surface 20 MM, if so what is the O.D. of the ramp the gear is on, or has the end of the crankshaft but cut to under 20 MM? The ball bearing in the 2008 NE motor is 9 MM wide, O.D. 37 MM, and a 20 MM I.D. All previous crankshafts had a hardened surface to ride inside the needle bearing in the side cover, is the surface hardened on the new version?

I did notice the bearing in the side cover is the same depth on your motor as the one I am repairing. It looks like the crankshaft end is longer and therefore would sit deeper into the bearing [a good thing]. Another good thing is don't think there were more than eighty five 2008 NE5 Whizzers produced.
For anyone owning one of the 2008 NE5 Whizzers with the same setup as I just discovered, there are several modifications possible. I will list them in order of poor to what I consider the best fix. First option is to make a spacer and place it between the bearing and the side cover to cause more of the crankshaft to fit into the bearing race for better support [poor, because it still uses the "Extremely Light Plain Ball Bearing" made in Taiwan] FTR, Not long ago a certain company was bragging to me about how they got rid of the cheap Taiwan bearing in their automatic clutch and replaced it with a quality German bearing. Second choice to modify the motor I am working on, would require replacing the sidecover with a NE cover [#2013NE $58.95] with the good ole' German needle bearing [A direct fit, and the best solution, however are they available?], and the third and still a great choice is to replace the sidecover with a WC-1 cover [#2013 $54.15 + screws].

The difference between the WC-1 and the 2005 to 2007 NE sidecover is the mounting screws and the thickness. The NE sidecover uses allen screws whereas the WC-1 uses phillips "cupped" screws [#93600-05015-18 $8.50 per set]. I know there are quality aftermarket screws for the WC-1 sidecover made to use the allen head pattern [Whoever has them please call me I want to buy some]. Another difference is the NE sidecover has "Whizzer" etched into the cover, whereas the WC-1 sports a smooth circle on the outside [I will include photo, WC-1 is top right]. Although the NE cover is thicker, the WC-1 is a perfect fit because the bearing races aren't as deep to make up for the wider cover.

The pictures from August indicates the current and most likely future Whizzer motors will use the ball bearing in place of the needle bearing. I checked all my new NE/SE motors and luckily all mine have the needle bearing sidecover.


Have fun,

 

[bobco]

...I know there are quality aftermarket screws for the WC-1 sidecover made to use the allen head pattern [Whoever has them please call me I want to buy some].
Have fun,

Quenton,

For your allen head pattern bolts for the WC-1, go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and type in 91294A211 and that's for a black oxide M5x14mm flat socket head cap screw.....and number 92125A211 is the stainless steel version...same dimensions and both are .8mm pitch, 10mm across the head of the screw...

91294A211 is $9.50/100 so you can do 10 engines with this screw
92125A211 is $11.73/50 so you can do 5 engines with this screw

I buy machining tools and all of my hardware from these folks...a nice local Ohio Co. Their shipping is lightning fast too!!

Cheers!

 

[Hal the Elder]

Oscar Has Needles.

Hal

 

[Quenton Guenther]

Hi Hal & Oscar,


That is great news! I suspect only a handful of NE5 Whizzers have the "Extremely Light Plain Ball Bearing". Checking NE5 motor serial numbers has revealed that only the final production of the 2008 NE5 have the #6904 ball bearing. Most likely all the 2008 NE5 Whizzers use the ball bearing.

When I find an extra few moments I will remove the sidecover from My Ambassador and see what "lurks" inside. I am still doing research to determine when the sidecover bearing was down-graded. Thanks to August on this site we now know the NE-r uses the light weight ball bearing, but don't know if it is the #6904 because of the way the end of the crankshaft is "cut" down. The jury is still out on which bearing is used in the Ambassador II.

It looks like the sidecover with the needle bearing [WC-1 or 2005 to 2007 NE] can be installed on the 2008 NE motors if it has the spacers on it from Taiwan. If it is machined [like August's NE-r], I don't have enough information yet to offer an upgrade.

I will include photos of the bearing specs.

Please note, the "Extremely Light Plain Ball Bearings" doesn't list any "Features",
whereas the "Open End Needle Roller Bearings" List "Features" like

Extremely high speed

High load capacity

Extremely low rolling friction

High lubrication capacity

Low sensitivity to misalignment

Just to mention a few.


This infromation isn't intended to "bash" anyone, any company, or any vendor, just supplying important information to keep our Whizzers in the best condition possible for durability.

Have fun,