Browns gas

[jared8783]

Has anybody ever considered enhancing their mb with browns gas?

This summer I'll definetly get a self charging electrical system figured out and after I got electricity I will probably next summer begin experimenting with browns gas.

For those of you who don't know what brown's gas is it is 2 parts hydrogen 1 part oxygen.

You get it when you run an electric current through water and break dowm the structure of the water. Basically seperating the hydrogen from the oxygen. It is wuite simple.

Hopefully one day the mb will run on browns gas alone. It has been done to cars before so a mb should be easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKM4pb9Oxrg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHT0hBgVOw&feature=related

 

[SirJakesus]

Cars have spare electricity from their alternators that can go to producing watergas without much if any extra load on the engine. With an MB you're either going to have to create a charging system or haul batteries... I don't think it's practical with these bikes and is probably energy negative. You'd be better off putting electrical power into lighting/accessories or an electric motor for more boost.
10 amps from a car is nothing, 10 amps from a bicycle is a big demand.

 

[jared8783]

Cars have spare electricity from their alternators that can go to producing watergas without much if any extra load on the engine. With an MB you're either going to have to create a charging system or haul batteries... I don't think it's practical with these bikes and is probably energy negative. You'd be better off putting electrical power into lighting/accessories or an electric motor for more boost.
10 amps from a car is nothing, 10 amps from a bicycle is a big demand.

As previously stated above a self-charging system will come first

And if 10 amps is what is neccessary for a full-size car, then I really don't think I will need that much HHO for 50cc.

 

[Flapdoodle]

I tried the browns gas generator I made for my car on a 2 cycle weed eater outboard. Absolutely no difference at any RPM. My guess is it runs so rich, the hydrogen goes unnoticed though it.
http://www.flapdoodledinghy.com/motor.html

 

[machiasmort]

Here are the probs w/our ht's(using HHO)

A) Not computer controlled to lean out the fuel mix. meaning anything you got into the carb off of the fuel cell would probably not even be noticed. People are running cars on this stuff sucessfully because the computer will lean out the gas. Okay, you might answer, easily solved, turn off your gas pepcock.

B) Being a 2strk how would you introduce oil w/HHO? Would you even need to, because HHO runs cooler and contains a little water vapor?

If I get some solid answers/solutions to these Q's, I'll be happy to give you my spin because I'm pretty sure I've got a way!

 

[SimpleSimon]

HHO as a supplement to other motor fuels in ICE engines is a good idea. HHO by itself as the sole power source in the same (or any) engine is not going to fly - the energy needed to disassociate the water has to come from the fuel, but if the resulting HHO is your only fuel then entropy guarantees that you will not run that system very far. It doesn't matter how perfect your mechanical system is, if you are running an ICE engine to produce electricity which is then used to disassociate water molecules to be used as fuel in that same engine, you will be doing well to get 60% efficiency.

When coupled with hydrocarbon fuels, HHO does a number of things I've discussed previously, which result in a synergistic effect that improves overall fuel economy markedly. By itself, it ain't going to fly.

 

[Flapdoodle]

I am in full agreement Simon, and it is practical on only some cars, not all. I posted some of the pitfalls I found here:
http://flapdoodle.250free.com/HHO_generator.html

The biggest factor is its sensitivity to ambient temperature.

 

[machiasmort]

Excellent post flap,

One of the better I've seen on HHO but didn't have time to read it all.

I know what you guy's are thinking. Ah grasshopper you are out to snatch the pebble from the old blind man's hand!

It's plain and simple, HHO is more about voltage than the amps used to generate it.

Of coarse it's not worth turnning an alternator with the HHO to power your car. That's why we have solar to charge a battery bank! Understand yet or no???

 

[SimpleSimon]

The biggest problem with using HHO as a sole source, or even a primary source fuel for an ICE engine is that storing it is incredibly dangerous. Hydrogen burning with oxygen is a violently exothermic chemical reaction, and the transition energy needed to spark the conflagration is quite low. Since it is a mix of fuel (hydrogen) and oxidizer (oxygen) in an ideal combustion ratio already there is no flash suppressor or flame retardant system possible. The resulting explosion can be catastrophic - you do realize that the main engines on the Space Shuttle burn hydrogen in oxygen, right?

So, you need to disassociate the water to the gas as you use it, and the best available means to achieve that is electricity - high voltage, radio frequency range electric current works best. As others have pointed out, small engines typically don't have power available from their prime mover task to spare for running an electrolysis apparatus efficiently.

 

[machiasmort]

"radio frequency range electric current works best"

Simon,

I've been doing alot of reading on it, just like you. I think I'm on to something here.

If you could address my previously aforementioned concerns on how to get it to the bike to use in a non-sustaining amount. I think I've got a generator that will produce enough to be signifigant!

I would like to hear more on your knowledge of RF frequencies to produce HHO. It only stands to reason, because everything in this Universe is built on a frequency, that a freq. would harmonisize w/water and make the molecular breakdown easier (at lower power).

The ammount of amps seems to be less important than the ammount of volts.