Pull Start Anyone with pull start installition experience ?

[POPS]

PC

If you go to the (other channel) and look in

2 stroke bicycle engines and kits I bumped a thread

today that will tell you all you want to know about

the CF clutch...POPS

 

[Porkchop]

What's the "Other Channel"
If it's something you can't post here, PM it to me !
Thanks !

 

[POPS]

PC

I don't know why but I can't PM you???

I did threw your visitor place on your site...POPS

 

[Porkchop]

O.K. I read your posts on the other channel. I was going to PM this to you, but decided to post here for others like me that don't go to the other side. A few questions. This is my first time I've ever heard of or gotten any experience on this one way stuff. I realized last night that the one way roller on my friction drive build operates pretty much the same way as the one way system works in this centrifugal clutch. I think it's a clever idea. Anyway, I plan NOT to have a manual clutch on my bicycle. And again, this is my first frame mount. If I install my centrifugal clutch as it's supposed to be, meaning straight out of the box with no modifications, with no manual clutch, how should I expect my bike to start and go ? I have already installed a pull start. With no manual clutch, when I peddle my bike, is it always going to turn over the engine, provided the cent. clutch is installed with the pre-tensioner spring, or what ever you refer to it as, is installed correctly ? It's my understanding from you other post that it will. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your post on the other channel said you removed the spring in the clutch, rotated the bearing race anit-clockwise and put a couple of welds on it to get completely rid of the manual clutch and make your whole clutch assembly free wheel, meaning you have to get the RPM's up so only the clutch shoes do any pulling. Do you have to do this to get rid of the manual clutch completely so while under noraml peddling you won't be turning over the engine ? Can you not just remove the spring, remove the roller bearings, replace the race and weld it to the clutch drum ? After welding, what are the roller bearings good for ! Sounds like I'm wanting to do my bike like you did yours. I want no manual clutch at all, I want to be able to peddle my bike as normal, puill the cord to start the engine, give it throttle to make it go, just let off the htrottle and apply brakes to stop. Of course I realize as long as the back wheel is rotating, everything in the engine from the clutch drum back will still be in motion. Just like an automobile with a manual transmision with the clutch disengaged.
THANKS !

.............. PC ...........

 

[POPS]

O.K. I read your posts on the other channel. I was going to PM this to you, but decided to post here for others like me that don't go to the other side. A few questions. This is my first time I've ever heard of or gotten any experience on this one way stuff. I realized last night that the one way roller on my friction drive build operates pretty much the same way as the one way system works in this centrifugal clutch. I think it's a clever idea. Anyway, I plan NOT to have a manual clutch on my bicycle. And again, this is my first frame mount. #1 If I install my centrifugal clutch as it's supposed to be, meaning straight out of the box with no modifications, with no manual clutch, how should I expect my bike to start and go ? I have already installed a pull start. With no manual clutch, when I peddle my bike, is it always going to turn over the engine, provided the cent. clutch is installed with the pre-tensioner spring, or what ever you refer to it as, is installed correctly ? It's my understanding from you other post that it will.
#2 Correct me if I'm wrong, but your post on the other channel said you removed the spring in the clutch, rotated the bearing race anit-clockwise and put a couple of welds on it to get completely rid of the manual clutch and make your whole clutch assembly free wheel, meaning you have to get the RPM's up so only the clutch shoes do any pulling. #3 Do you have to do this to get rid of the manual clutch completely so while under noraml peddling you won't be turning over the engine ? #4 Can you not just remove the spring, remove the roller bearings, replace the race and weld it to the clutch drum ? After welding, what are the roller bearings good for ! Sounds like I'm wanting to do my bike like you did yours. I want no manual clutch at all, I want to be able to peddle my bike as normal, puill the cord to start the engine, give it throttle to make it go, just let off the htrottle and apply brakes to stop. Of course I realize as long as the back wheel is rotating, everything in the engine from the clutch drum back will still be in motion. Just like an automobile with a manual transmision with the clutch disengaged.
THANKS !

.............. PC ...........

PC

Question:

#1...Yes, When you peddle you will always be turning the motor.

#2...Yes, But I did not tack weld it as I figured I could just reverse
the spring (retaining clip) and put a 180 twist on the end of the clip
that attaches to the bell and play to find the positon with the
roller bearings ( keep moveing around the bearing race to find
the sweet spot where it will line up with a hole in the bell to clip
on and preload the center to the left. Anticlockwise) That way
if you change your mind you change it back with little to no problemo.

#3...Yes

#4...No...Without the roller bearings the bearing race will flop around the
shaft and not work!

Hope this helps ya out PC...Any more Q's.. I'll be here...POPS

 

[Porkchop]

Thanks Poos. Duh to #4. I don't know what I was thinking. Of course the bearings have to be there !!! What would happen it you just removed the retainer spring/tensioner ? Zoombibycles told me they actually didn't know if that clip had any real value. I'm wondering now if it's just there so you can peddle start. I also have doubts that it will last very long. I think Ill keep this one as it is and make another one that works from the other direction. I'm afraid of bending the hook on it to be able to flip it over. Don't want to weaken it. So...what do you know about removing it all together ? Looks like it's going to be a while before I get this engine mounted on a bike anyway. I've decided not to mount it the bike Ive been working with. It's a 1972 Schwinn Collegiate that's to good of a bike to mess up, like breaking spokes and trashing rear wheels. I also don't want to remove the chrome fenders. So....I've got to find another bike.

 

[POPS]

PC

If you take the spring off and leave it off the clutch will have

a mind of it's own, meaning it will kick in and out when it wants to.

It will freewheel one moment and then the next it will lock up so

you can peddle start. If you go back to that other thread you will

see that is just what was happening to Lordo because his spring came off.

That spring thing is all most like a paper clip. I don't think you can break

it with out working it back and forth ( 180-180,180-180) lots of times before

it will fail...POPS

PS...And stop calling me poos...LOL

 

[Porkchop]

Pops, that's pretty much what I thought your reply was going to be. But listen, I was thinking about the clutch earlier and I'm not totaly convinced that by removing the needle bearings that it will mees up something. If you know for sure, let me know. My engoine is sitting on my work bench withoput the clutch. I'm going downstairs shortly and fool with it and see what I can figure. I'm not afraid to tinker. The worst I can do is fix something where it can't be fixed, if you know what I mean. Ha ! Ha !
I understand how peddling the bike will transfer energy to the motor and turn over the crank shaft. Thats in the one way bearing. I'm thinking howeveer, with the bearings removed that won't happen, but when the engine is running and RPM"s are high enough to make the shoes grab the drum, then that wii transfer power to the rear wheel. If the needle bearings are in position so that they are not grabbing, aren't they more of less acting as just a bushing ? Are they not there just to connect the crank shaft of the engine to the clutch anyway ? Again, this is my first and only encounter with one way bearings like this, and after working for the worlds largest engineering company fo 30 years, you can guess how my mind opperates. Sometime I have to tae things apart to see what makes them work and sometimes I just have to learn the hard way.
Thanks for all your replies and help too ! Keep 'em up !

 

[POPS]

Pops, that's pretty much what I thought your reply was going to be. But listen, #1 I was thinking about the clutch earlier and I'm not totaly convinced that by removing the needle bearings that it will mees up something. If you know for sure, let me know. My engoine is sitting on my work bench withoput the clutch. I'm going downstairs shortly and fool with it and see what I can figure. I'm not afraid to tinker. The worst I can do is fix something where it can't be fixed, if you know what I mean. Ha ! Ha !
I understand how peddling the bike will transfer energy to the motor and turn over the crank shaft. Thats in the one way bearing. I'm thinking howeveer, with the bearings removed that won't happen, but when the engine is running and RPM"s are high enough to make the shoes grab the drum, then that wii transfer power to the rear wheel. #2 If the needle bearings are in position so that they are not grabbing, aren't they more of less acting as just a bushing ? #3 Are they not there just to connect the crank shaft of the engine to the clutch anyway ? Again, this is my first and only encounter with one way bearings like this, and after working for the worlds largest engineering company fo 30 years, you can guess how my mind opperates. Sometime I have to tae things apart to see what makes them work and sometimes I just have to learn the hard way.
Thanks for all your replies and help too ! Keep 'em up !

PC

#1...If you take out the needle bearings 2 things or three will happen for shure. The bearings are hardened steel, The race is not..not good on a hardened shaft.

The clutch assembly will go down way further on the shaft and the gears will not mesh properly and it will wobble all over the place.

Seeing that you are downstairs you will have likely figured all this out.

#2...Yes but also as a spacer and hardened bearings for the shaft.

#3..Yes but also for all the above reasons.


I've allways had to know how something works. I take everything apart and put it back together. It's something I have to do. Hooked..gotta know!!!


Your very welcome for the help and stuff. I think thats why most of us are here...To learn, help and share...POPS

 

[Porkchop]

Pops, I just got through tinkering. I like the way you break things down in your descriptions Makes this simple.

There is a sleeve/bushing that goes over the crank shaft. The needle bearings ride on that sleeve. Not the crank shaft it's self. The only time those bearings should be turning is when the clutch drum is not. That being said, because the bearings actualy move inward and outward from the center of the crank shaft, they should have nothing to do with alignment of the race to the crank shaft. When the drum turns, it puts the bearings in a friction/wedge bind. I guess you know what I'm talking about. The sleeve that goes down and around the crank shaft will go down only so far. Mine appears to be all the way down. The sleeve also has 2 flat side on the top of it. I don't know the technical terms for that other than maybe a shoulder. When I install the clutch drum and clutch it's self, it all fits flush with the top of the shaft. Also, with or with out the bearings, something is alredy out of alignment because I already have weeble wobble in the clutch drum.
The gears appear to mesh properly. I don't recall if I mentioned or not that I spoke with zoombicycles and they told me they really didn't know what good that retainer clip was good for. I know I've talk to some vendors that sell parts but don't have the first clue about technical issues with them. Not saying zoom dosen't. But I know some are like that. Not trying to be contradictory, but do you know what you've told me from experience ? Bottom line, how do I get completley rid of the manual clutch an be able to peddle my bike or push it without turning over the engine ? Reverse the retainer clip direction ?
Thanks !