Fuel Mixture Supporting evidence for 2-stroke oil/fuel ratio

[Fabian]

Hi motorpsycho

For your answer you need to look at emissions regulations.
If the government stipulates an emissions regulation that works out to be 50:1, the manufacturers will all recomend 50:1

Manufacturers must then use methods of giving the consumer reliability by new metals technology and cylinder plating technology and a further option of simply detuning their engines to give the required reliability.

Nikasil plating technology came into widespread use when emissions regulations dictated the move to 40:1 oil/fuel ratios.
Unfortunately our cheap and nasty Chinese Bicycle Engines use a very poor quality version of a chrome plated cylinder bore and the metal used in the casting process is also bottom of the barrel in respect to quality.

You can still use lean oil/fuel ratios with a well designed cylinder structure made from high grade alloy and a laser etched chrome plated cylinder bore - naturally the price reflects the technology.

At the end of the day, rather than asking the question "who is right, who is wrong", it's only a simple matter of spending 3 or 4 weeks doing some serious and intensive research to find a definitive answer - basically, start opening a lot of books, give yourself the opportunity to spend time in a large library researching the topic and use the internet for any out of date scientific publications.
Military defence research papers are another good source of information as their requirements are not bound to civil emissions regulations - they need a product to work as well as it can.

You have the power to fill your head with well researched knowledge - a little intellectual fortitude goes a long way to providing answers.

Fabian

 

[arceeguy]

......Nikasil plating technology came into widespread use when emissions regulations dictated the move to 40:1 oil/fuel ratios.
Unfortunately our cheap and nasty Chinese Bicycle Engines use a very poor quality version of a chrome plated cylinder bore and the metal used in the casting process is also bottom of the barrel in respect to quality.

You can still use lean oil/fuel ratios with a well designed cylinder structure made from high grade alloy and a laser etched chrome plated cylinder bore - naturally the price reflects the technology.......

FYI - Your typical Home Depot string trimmer or blower engine runs the piston in a plain aluminum bore with no hard plating, and they run 40:1 mix. The chrome plating in the bicycle engine (or steel cylinder liner in some models) is superior to those little engines.

 

[210061741]

I believe knowing your bike works the best.
I run different oils at recommended mixes also with 2 to 4 oz per tank octane booster. 12$ a bottle the real deal.
When the mix is lean it will run much diff then with rich.
I mix mine right around 35:1.
And i ride hard very hard.
High rpm and fast with a 36t sprocket.

I heard my bearings squeeling for a wile.
Sprayed some Industrial lube in the intake and it went away.

Can't wait to see what the inside of my motor looks like.
I have abused it to the max for 3 mo.

 

[Fabian]

Hi arceeguy

Go down to home depot and find the contact number for the company selling those string trimmers.
Call the company and ask for the technical department, ask them what plating process is used on the bore structure.
Nikasil impregnated aluminium looks just like plain aluminium - it is possible they are using a Nikasil plated bore but it's not likely at very low prices, though i could be wrong.

You get what you pay for but if steel rings are running on a non plated aluminium bore, you really get what you pay for - a case of buyer beware.

A chainsaw can sell for $200 and you can buy a similar chainsaw for $700 from a reputable manufacturer selling their equipment to professionals - what could possibly be the difference apart from price.

Fabian

 

[oldsalt]

The history of DOT and the EPA shows they will stipulate the craziest things; Sometimes things that are not possible at all, but, more often, things that are just silly or wastefull in the long run. If a person goes to a junk yard he will now see huge numbers of what look to be good, late model, lightly used lawnmowers. But the decision to allow up to 10% alcohol in our gas [without the necessity of declaring it at the pump] ruined untold millions of them. It's easier and usually cheaper to buy a new one than repair, and to **** with the eco impact. The alcohol is hydroscopic and ruins the carbs over the winter. Would mandating 40:1 oil mix be something that they would do without considering the consequences??? Sure they would, all the history clearly points to that. As far as I'm concerned they are quite welcome to use 50:1 in THEIR machines.

 

[arceeguy]

Hi arceeguy

Go down to home depot and find the contact number for the company selling those string trimmers.
Call the company and ask for the technical department, ask them what plating process is used on the bore structure.
Nikasil impregnated aluminium looks just like plain aluminium - it is possible they are using a Nikasil plated bore but it's not likely at very low prices, though i could be wrong.

You get what you pay for but if steel rings are running on a non plated aluminium bore, you really get what you pay for - a case of buyer beware.

A chainsaw can sell for $200 and you can buy a similar chainsaw for $700 from a reputable manufacturer selling their equipment to professionals - what could possibly be the difference apart from price.

Fabian

I don't need to call them. You aren't getting a leaf blower with a nikasil, chrome or other hard plated bore for $99.

Most consumer grade power equipment run their pistons in plain aluminum bores. (Briggs & Stratton Kool Bore) Even a cheap 2 stroke will last several years under normal consumer use, and aluminum bore 4 strokes can go for decades.

People will debate 2 stroke oil ratios and what type of oil (like Castor/Dino/Synthetic) forever. Everyone is going to do what they are comfortable with.

 

[outrunner2]

why is it then, that my 2 stroke weedeater recomends 40:1, my 2 stroke chain saw recomends 40:1 and the instructions for my 2 stroke bicycle motor recomends 40:1(after break in)? every 2 stroke that i have ever dealt with says to run at 40:1. my father in laws 40 h.p. outboard also recomends 40:1.
I have been running my weedeater at 40:1 for 15 years...maybe 40:1 was the suggested ratio at the time that it was made? my chain saw is about 8 years old...and i still run it at 40:1. My bike motor was built jan 2009, and it says right in the instructions to run it at 40:1 as well.
A bunch of people say that 40:1 is too lean.
so.....who's right and who's wrong?

I've been using Amsoil Dominator synthetic oil at 40 or 50:1 ratio for over 5 years in all of my 2 stroke engines, which includes 11 RC airplane engines, 2 weedwackers,2 chainsaws, Ryobi 2 strokes, Husqvarna 2 strokes, Homelite 2 strokes and my MB China 2 stroke, without any oil related problems, or piston seizures. I run my MB full throttle EVERY time I ride it for short sustained periods. Upon tear downs of my MB engine and dozens of RC airplane engines that are rated somewhere between 1 hp to 16 hp, they look
clean and golden colored throughout the upper and lower end. Not only am I the only one to have great results with synthetic oils (some with castor oil
added for extreme heat stability), but at LEAST 35 to 40 of my fellow flying club members use synthetic oil at 50:1 and a few at 100:1 ratios, so the real proof is in the seeing and experiencing the actual results in person over several years! Our flying club is at gmarc.com if you would like to see the number and size of the aircraft that are flown daily when weather permits.
Synthetic oil has thermal stability in extremely low or high temperatures to maintain lubrication and viscosity. Crude oil cannot compare to it, and will break down MUCH faster during thermal loading and extreme pressure demands.