IS the EPA wrong on emissions?

Badger

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How can the EPA call these little engines gross polluters? True the oil visably comes out the tailpipe. But commonsense tells me that it does not vaporize. Thus it must fall to earth that it came fron or the oil based pavement.
If it floated into the atmosphere we would see the black smoke floating upward.But we do not it seems to fall downward about 6 to 8 feet behind our bikes.
 
To answer your question indirectly, just consider this: the EPA has identified carbon dioxide (the by-product of all animal respiration) as a Pollutant .
 
Would it help if we didn't breathe!

What a bunch of Idiots!1

Maybe we should all call them or brtter yet make a petion to make them prove themselves right and not just allow this thug type law making to continue.
 
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Emission laws have done a great deal to clean up our air and environment. But like any good intentioned government agency, they always seem to take things one or two steps too far. In the case of declaring CO2 as a pollutant, they have gone totally off the charts.

They've regulated automobiles to the point where they produce very little toxic pollution. This was accomplished with sophisticated computer controlled fuel management.

It is not practical to apply those same tight regulations to small engines as this will cause the prices to rise to a point where people won't be able to afford them. (maybe this is their ultimate goal)

Small engines for lawn equipment, small motorcycles, ATV's, sleds, and boats (under 650cc) should have very loose emission controls to keep them simple and reliable. Most people don't drive their cycles and boats as much as they drive their cars so they already have reduced pollution by a lot.
 
A two stroke has not change over the years. It came down to smog. Unburn fuel for two stroke. Just think EPA is make them better.Colorado State University has went to India where they alot of two stoke taxi and made a direct injection kit. I think Ford is use in gas car now. Read up on it becuase this the next step for smog control. I bet down the road there will be no carb and air will be inject at the same time gas go in.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viWhxvo6DLk&feature=related
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection#In_two-stroke_engines
 
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How can the EPA call these little engines gross polluters? True the oil visably comes out the tailpipe. But commonsense tells me that it does not vaporize. Thus it must fall to earth that it came fron or the oil based pavement.
If it floated into the atmosphere we would see the black smoke floating upward.But we do not it seems to fall downward about 6 to 8 feet behind our bikes.
The numbers are here.

'Common sense' can be deceiving sometimes. Our small 2-stroke motors DO pollute a lot more than cars, per mile, except for CO2, which is based on the amount of fuel burned, so in THAT area, they are better. Even the small 4-stroke engines emit about the same pollutants (Hydrocarbons, Nitrous Oxides, and Carbon Monoxides) as a car, per mile.

Any HC emissions which 'fall to the earth that it came from or ... pavement' end up sitting on top of these surfaces - it's not trapped deep within the earth, or bound within the asphalt. So, the first time it rains, that excess hydrocarbon gets carried into the rivers & lakes. (That's why road surfaces are so slippery when it rains after a long dry spell - the oils get lifted to the top of the water and make the surfaces slippery as they are being washed away.)
 
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my money says that 2 stroke engines probably put out more pollution than an average automobile per mile... but what 2 stroke engine goes 200,000 miles???

Last I checked, people are lucky to get 1000 miles out of one of these things... so unless you are gonna burn through a couple hundred ht motors, I wouldn't sweat the small stuff.

loquin... you gotta tone down the green revolution stuff. Its a real put-off. When almost everybody starts to ride an ht powered bicycle to work... then I think we can start to regulate and complain about emissions.

Any complaints about chainsaws, weedwhakers, or leaf blowers??? Cause I see hundreds if not thousands of those in use everyday by the landscapers and gardeners in town. Why dont you start with them and leave us alone???
 
Yes they have went after the chainsaws, weedwhakers, or leaf blowers. They just gave way blower with the new engine.

When the last time you didn't see the mountains and had a hard time breathing?
Talk to mine parents and they was days when the smog was so bad you can cut it with a knife. The last time LA had a 3 stage was in 1972. It has clean up alot. This smog thing you better start learning about it. Last year they was trying to make motorcycle to get smog tested.

The web page is Calif On-Road New Vehicle & Engine Certification Program. Let say you what a motorcyle that you got in AZ to get plate here. If it not on the list you wasted your money. So call and make sure you can bring it to Calif. Red sticker can only ride half the year but the green you can ride all year long.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php

I got boat with two stoke engine. In 2013 there will be outlaw on Lake Mead and the river. So don't buy a 2 stroke boat. It is here and there is only one way to deal with it. It is go around it. LOL
 
Yes they have went after the chainsaws, weedwhakers, or leaf blowers. They just gave way blower with the new engine.

When the last time you didn't see the mountains and had a hard time breathing?
Talk to mine parents and they was days when the smog was so bad you can cut it with a knife. The last time LA had a 3 stage was in 1972. It has clean up alot. This smog thing you better start learning about it. Last year they was trying to make motorcycle to get smog tested.

The web page is Calif On-Road New Vehicle & Engine Certification Program. Let say you what a motorcyle that you got in AZ to get plate here. If it not on the list you wasted your money. So call and make sure you can bring it to Calif. Red sticker can only ride half the year but the green you can ride all year long.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php

I got boat with two stoke engine. In 2013 there will be outlaw on Lake Mead and the river. So don't buy a 2 stroke boat. It is here and there is only one way to deal with it. It is go around it. LOL

are you talking to me????


Like I don't know about C.A.R.B.???? I build hondas in southern california... I HATE C.A.R.B.!!!

I live in the city that is routinely 2 or 3 on the top of the worst air list. So unless you live in riverside, I dont really want to hear about bad air and how you cant ride a 2 stroke boat on lake mead. I like the "cleaner" air that we have been having, but you can go too far. I heard they want to start regulating fast food restaurants and their emissions.

Shouldn't be driving a 2 stroke boat in a reservoir that humans are going to be potentially consuming anyways... I'm not a green nut, but you shouldn't s*** where you eat.
 
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vtec: 'green revolution' ??? :rolleyes: (n) I run a two-stroke engine myself (a Mitsubishi TLE43.) I'm just a realist about what comes out of their tiny little exhaust pipes. :whistle:

I specifically answered a couple of the OP's questions.
  1. How a small engine that gets 150 MPG or better could produce more pollution (hydrocarbon/NO/CO) than a car, and
  2. The misconception that pollution is only vapors.
  3. I also pointed out that our small engines pump out much LESS CO2 than a car.
So tell me - how is that 'green revolution' stuff???
 
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