E-Bike Industrial Design project (with survey)

[AussieSteve]

Sheik, a couple of questions.
Rather than a setup with a drivetrain, have you considered using a hub motor? (Just noticed that moondog mentioned this too.)
What output power are you planning?
Finally, what sort of range are you looking at?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Sheik, a couple of questions.
Rather than a setup with a drivetrain, have you considered using a hub motor? (Just noticed that moondog mentioned this too.)
What output power are you planning?
Finally, what sort of range are you looking at?

We're going to base a lot of these answers off the user research we gather. I mostly wanted to pick your brains about the technical stuff. I'll be able to give you guys more specifics when the research aspect of this project is over. In the meantime I just wanted to generate some discussion and "get the ball rolling" you know. I appreciate all the responses.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuji_Advanced_Sports

"Fuji bicycles are now built in Taichung, Taiwan; Dong Guan, Guangdong Province in the People's Republic of China; and in Kutno, Poland by Ideal Bike Corporation."

http://www.google.com/finance?q=TPO:8933
Ideal Bike Corporation Pingzhao Zhan -Chairman of the Board

Will this e-bike be built, or assembled, in the USA by American workers?
"Regular Guy" in America wants to know.

This bike is aimed at the walmart and best buy crowd. How many "regular guys" do you know that shop at these places? I'm sure most of them do, and very little in those stores is manufactured in this country. ****, half the time the food we buy isn't even grown in this country. I understand and appreciate your argument, but most of the people in the demographic I'm targeting with this project already buys a lot of chinese made items. There are other groups in my studio that are trying to target a different price bracket, and a different audience.

Thanks for your response.

 

[safe]

This bike is aimed at the walmart and best buy crowd.

I know I sound like I'm repeating myself, but from the beginning I've targeted the concept of the Electric Bicycle Road Racer as a WalMart product. If you go to WalMart and check out their existing electric pocket bikes you would see that they already try to sell into a teenage marketplace.

The idea is to simply make a "faux road racer" electric bicycle that just so happens to actually work well. Sort of sneak the product in.

It's not like we're selling Tobacco here... kids are going to ride around on the streets and do silly things no matter what products are available, but the idea would be to build something that was designed with actual understanding of what a good "road racer" might function like.

Anyway... sounds like you have your mind set on the board track racer idea... I really don't think that a 16 year old will understand the appeal of "retro" styling. Older ebikers (40-60 year olds) like the idea of "retro" because it helps comfort them in their old age identification process. They think "ah, the old look was so cool... sort of like how my gray hairs are cool."

I might be wrong but if I were to make an association I'd say:

Board Track Racer Demographics - 40 to 60 year olds

Road Racer Demographics - 14 to 30 years olds

...the people from 30 to 40 are so busy with their main lives that they usually don't have too much time for hobbies.

WalMart bikes should appeal to children.

 

[safe]

Specific Battery Advice

Here's a thought...

Design the bike around two 12V 18Ah SLA batteries so that you can sell the bike cheaply at WalMart.

http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74

The owner can then replace the SLA's (13 lbs each) with these Lithium cells (6.6 lbs each and double the Wh capacity after you consider the Peukert Effect). They are an exact plug in replacement product. That way you can sell the bike with a specific battery mounting that would work for either chemistry.

And zero labor cost...

Design the motor so that it works optimally at 24 volts. (most people don't realize that with proper electric motor design 24 volts can do quite well)

 

[Stan4d]

Question for Safe

Could you source your demographic study that supports your comment?

Still waiting on an answer. If it is what you think that is OK. If you have sources to back up your claims please share them.

 

[safe]

Still waiting on an answer. If it is what you think that is OK. If you have sources to back up your claims please share them.

Most of the people I've interacted with both on electric bicycle and gas bicycle sites have been older. So far I have not interacted with many people who are young.

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Historically things like BMX were more or less organized by adults for the children. Without the adult element the sport of BMX would have remained as something that only a few kids did with their banana seats and high rise handlebars. Bicycle shops needed to get into the sport (BMX) and sell things that kids wanted so that the selection improved. It was really necessary for the adults to see value in the sport before it would grow. (it had to be accepted by the parents) I used to work at a bicycle shop back in the 1970's so I saw the sport grow from the begining.

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I would not be surprised if there were a few people in each age group that are into motorized bikes, but so far all I've come into contact with is older people. (like myself... at near 50) If there are 16 years olds that are excited about motorized bikes I haven't heard much from them.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Specific Battery Advice

Here's a thought...

Design the bike around two 12V 18Ah SLA batteries so that you can sell the bike cheaply at WalMart.

http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=16&products_id=74

The owner can then replace the SLA's (13 lbs each) with these Lithium cells (6.6 lbs each and double the Wh capacity after you consider the Peukert Effect). They are an exact plug in replacement product. That way you can sell the bike with a specific battery mounting that would work for either chemistry.

And zero labor cost...

Design the motor so that it works optimally at 24 volts. (most people don't realize that with proper electric motor design 24 volts can do quite well)

Yeah, we were discussing a product with different battery "levels", so the costumer could buy the cheaper battery and upgrade later, without any modifications to the bike itself. So, as long as the batteries are the same voltage, there would be no problem creating a situation like that?

 

[Stan4d]

Most of the people I've interacted with both on electric bicycle and gas bicycle sites have been older. So far I have not interacted with many people who are young.

Thank you for telling us that you are using your own interaction to form your opinion. I only have to say that demographically teens will not interact with 50 year olds, and blanket statements about MBc membership should be avoided.
I will now let the thread get back on topic. Pardon the interuption.

 

[safe]

So, as long as the batteries are the same voltage, there would be no problem creating a situation like that?

The Thundersky cells were specifically designed to imitate the SLA's in both size and voltage. It wasn't an accident that it is this way. Normally there are many issues that crop up when you try to switch chemistries because the size is different or the combination of subcells is different so the voltages end up slightly off.

Many other entry level ebikes use two 18ah SLA's as their entry point. The Thundersky's allow you an upgrade path for the battery without you having to do anything. It's sort of the "no brainer" solution.

The cells are 3" wide in their thin direction and the ideal place to put batteries is in the middle of the bike between the legs of the rider. This requires that the frame can handle it and that's rare.

Most ebikes DON'T do a good job of design and place the battery hanging off the rear end as a sort of rear baggage pack. This produces really bad handling and if you are using a hub motor it amplifies the tendency to break spokes.

The center of gravity of a bicycle is in the middle of the bike. The closer you get the batteries to that center point the better.

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My avatar is of my newer bike and those are NiCads in solderless tubes. From a performance standpoint the (gray) battery is perfect right there. In fact, I'm considering getting two Thundersky cells to replace my NiCads and I'll mount them in the same spot. I've ridden that bike for maybe 20 miles and it handles great, but I've been stuck trying to figure out the best motor for it. (many technical problems are holding that bike back)