I disagree, you are assuming everybody does "in-frame" builds, I abhor the "in-frame", they look horrible to me (mini motorcycle look), and they are inefficent.The bikes from the 80' 90's are better , because they're better all around, the components are better, it's a proven fact that even the cups/cones in new production bikes are thin, and made from crap metal.An old Bridgestone MTB was based on the 10 speed, just beefed up, so when you really get on the pedals, your knees are VERY close together, the further you splay your legs, the less efficent pedaling.I know most here don't pedal much, but I consider them missing the point of MAB's and are doing a moped, while calling it an MAB.
Looks are in the eye of the beholder, build what looks good to you.
On a 4-stroke with wider crank arms sure, but not a 2-stroke, everything fits inside the pedals and you can knock you knees together all you want.
We can agree to disagree on many things about rack over center mount and leave it that troy as everything has it's own system for 'best use' and a rack can be the only last/best option.
I thought it was pretty clear in the reply, that it was my "opinion" on the "looks" thing.Try all you want, but the complexity and weight of a frame mount will never meet a GEBE in efficiency, fuel is spent in the amount of weight, wind, and drive drag & breaking initial inertia.How much does a frame-mount weigh (all up) to a GEBE, my guess is at least a couple pounds difference.I also consider range part of efficiency, I can easily mount a gallon tank in the diamond with my rack mount, which gives me right at 180 miles range no filling.The ability to swap the whole system to another bike in about 30 minutes I also consider superior to frame mounts.The amount of oil mixed in (most) frame mounts compared to a 50:1 quality engine is also a form of inefficiency,...no?As far as the last/best that's opinion also.To each their own, but I've read and read, it's disproportionate, the amount of problems/tinkering, relating frame-mounts compared to rack mounts, that is the definition of inefficiency, time is the most precious resource.Rack mounts are pretty much set and forget.To each their own, cheap ain't ever more affordable, as you end up spending more than a quality rack set up would run by going CG.My take, an informed opinion, nothing else.
I've had this debate with another member, but OK.Yes, I'm 100% fully versed in the history of motorcycles, do YOU understand that the first motors put on a bike were super heavy?Where else COULD they put the engine?Using antiquated utilities for a modern comparison is flawed debating.you're taliking about power, I'm talking about efficient usage of power, there is a HUGE difference.Yes you can make a brick fly, if you use enough horsepower, it's still a flying brick.My biggest engine is a 48cc, yes with the right gearing and pedaling up I could easily do 50.How much does your engine and trans weigh off the bike, mine comes in at 14lbs, all that weight is below my a.s.s. so you can't really tell it's there.Can you lift your bike over your head? If not you're in motorcycle territory, IMO.How often do you pedal, just to get going then "vroom vroom vroom" only? That's moped territory.Just saying, GEBE is more efficient, bottom line.
