20 children age 5 -10 dead thanks to a lone gunman

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Samdallas214, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Samdallas214

    Samdallas214 Member

    When are the people in the US going to get behind some kind of reasonable gun control.
    In the US because most guns (60%) are sold by individuals.
    60% of all guns are sold without any kind of ID, and can have unlimited clip capacity.

    Now I own 2 guns so I'm not against owning a gun, I'm just for simple gun control like no 50-100 round clips, making it where even if a individual sells a gun to another individual they must do a background check .
    Laws like these would be good laws, I just don't thank that's asking to much.


  2. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    That's true but the real point of interest should be psychological. What is causing the people to snap? duhh
    obviously there is a huge emotional disconnect in the USA. The gov't led the people down the path of fear and mistrust with all the phony "war on terror" bs. Humans need to feel familial and societal love. period. It's essential to healthy mental/emotional being.
    Now the country is in a downward spiral. The more shootings, the more emotional disconnect, the more shootings result, etc etc ad nauseum.
    ps- When the Romans were overcome the people welcomed the change. Things had eroded to an unbearable level of bs for all but the rich.
  3. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Well-Known Member

    God rest their souls. Controlling access to guns and preventing people from snapping are extremely difficult. We can't turn all schools, malls and theatres into fortresses either. We have to persue several avenues to prevent the lone gunman massacres. The school in Long Hook had better access control than any school I have visited. Conn has pretty stiff gun control laws compared to most. The mother had taught her sons to shoot safely at the local range. We don't yet know if the mother kept the guns locked away. Trying to fix this with only one, silver bullet method will not be successful. I'm a gun owner (stored in a pad locked gun case) and former Marine myself.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  4. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    This happened in a state with strict gun laws - yet it still happened. The problem doesn't lie with the tools he used - guns - but with with the fact that we're being confronted with more psychopaths everyday. Guns have been around since the 16th century (or perhaps even earlier), so they have been an integral part of history, both civilian and military. But with these tragedies of late, the tool is what people are fixating on, and not the problem behind the use of these tools. If guns weren't around and someone wanted to kill someone, they have many other tools to use from knives, axes, sledgehammers, automobiles and even explosives. The problem is with the psychopaths that are showing up in society in increasing numbers today. Discipline is long gone from homes and schools nowadays. I know of a teacher who takes bags of candy to school to entice the kids to behave. For a couple of generations we have been removing discipline from many aspects in life, and much of that can be traced back to the teachings of Dr. Benjamin Spock who basically said it's okay to not be responsible for your actions.
    Add to this the proliferation of ever increasingly violent and graphic video / computer games as well as movies, and we can see how this affecting the youth of this nation. In fact, it's just not an American problem, as in China a madman with a knife attacked 22 children and one adult at a school on Friday. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910
    This was of course overshadowed by what happened in Connecticut the same day. But to read the BBC article it shows that this has been an ongoing problem over there, with nearly 20 school children killed by knife-wielding psychopaths over the past few years.
    We have to find a way to reverse the decline in society in general, and new gun laws very likely would not have any bearing on that.
  5. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    32,367 automotive fatalities in the US in 2011. I think we should ban the automobile.

    The estimated number of annual deaths attributable to obesity among US adults is approximately 280,000 <--we need to ban fat people and the foods they eat. While I am an eater and support food rights, I own and eat 2 meals a day. I do not believe that anyone has the need to exceed 2,000 calories each day. When are the people in the US going to get behind some kind of reasonable calorie and weight control?
    In the US most fast food is eaten by overweight people and 100% of fast food is sold without any restricton, no ID, or weight scale requirements. PEOPLE CAN HAVE AND EAT AN UNLIMITED AMOUNt OF FOOD UNCHECKED!

    Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections who has written a history of mass murders in America, said that while mass shootings rose between the 1960s and the 1990s, they actually dropped in the 2000s. And mass killings actually reached their peak in 1929, according to his data. He estimates that there were 32 in the 1980s, 42 in the 1990s and 26 in the first decade of the century.

    The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides, with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 suicide deaths, and 12,632 (40.5%) homicide deaths.

    1927 -- US: Bath, Michigan School Disaster. Andrew Kehoe, seeking revenge against the community for taxes imposed on his farm to pay for a new school, set off a TNT bomb in the school, killing 43 people, including 39 grade-school children. After the explosion, Kehoe killed his wife, then drove his truck back, loaded with dynamite & nails, to the school, & set it off, killing himself & the school superintendent.

    Mass murder by mentally ill/deranged individuals is nothing new in this country or world. Ban an particular instrument used by the derained indvidual to commit mass murder and he/she will devise a new one.

    I know a half-dozen folks who own 100+ cannister rounds for their .223 rifles. None of them have killed anybody. I only own 30 round clips for my .223 rifle and reloading them allows my barrel to cool off after a round of spirited target shooting.

    Let's focus on the individual. Last time I checked, murder was still illegal and another law on the books won't stop the next insane individual.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  6. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    Here's an intelligent article on gun control: http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-opinion-on-gun-control/
    A bit lengthy, but a very good read.
  7. Samdallas214

    Samdallas214 Member

    I read that post, I got to tell you putting guns in the hands of teachers, trained or not is not the way to go.
    A armed trained police officer maybe but not teachers.
    We could put a armed police officer at every school in America for the cost of 3 Drone Planes lets make it 10 planes just to be safe, to me that makes a lot more since.

    What happens when 1 of these trained Teachers forgets to lock the gun up and or a student, another teacher janitor,Ext breaks into the gun safe steals the gun a starts shooting, it would only be a matter of time before something like that happened,and or just a plain accident, 1 or both would happen I guarantee it.

    Again I not against guns I own 2 myself, I'm against guns that will shoot 30-40-50-100-150 shots with out reloading.
    If things are so bad you need a weapon like that to be safe, then you need to move or get help.

    More half way trained people wit guns is not the answers.
  8. Ludwig II

    Ludwig II Member

    As an outsider, I see a possible way to introduce closer regulation of gun ownership and use in America without treading on the sense of civil liberties.

    Now bear in mind I may well, from this side of the Atlantic, have it all wrong, but I understand that Americans have the right to bear arms as part of a militia.

    Is there a space for a properly regulated volunteer force as a support for the army in times of emergency, that would address the right to bear arms and have legitimate background and character/personality checks? The right to bear arms would not be removed, except in those cases where individuals are deemed to be unsuitable.

    Gun ownership would then depend on accepting the responsibilities which appear to be implicit in the constitution, and those who did not accept and register for membership would be liable for prosecution.

    Please feel free to ignore if I've got it wrong.
  9. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    My heart and prayers went out to the parents of those kids. Having raised two kids, I cannot even imagine their lives being snatched away by such an evil thing. There is so much wrong in this case, and NONE of it has to do with me and other law abiding citizens of the USA owning guns. There are still many questions to be answered. I would even go as far as saying the mother - IF this turns out to be the case, had extremely poor judgment allowing it access to guns. We need to do some serious soul searching in this country.

    First of all learn the definition of the word " militia" - An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers....and particular in the late 1700's it meant that. Second, you ARE on to something about the reason for our 2nd Amendment. It's not there for hunting or sport - it's there to help keep the government in check. It's the exact reason why no law about gun confiscation will happen. Lastly, focus on the last phrase. We are talking about a RIGHT. It is one of the Not a controlled privilege. And it's the only place in our Constitution that uses the phrase "shall not be infringed" We in the USA should fight any such laws tooth and nail. WE SHOULD FIGHT THIS AS IF IT WAS AN ATTACK ON THE FREEDOM TO CONGREGATE, THE RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH, THE RIGHT TO WORSHIP AS WE SEE FIT....AS IF OUR HOUSES OR PERSONS WERE BEING SEARCHED AND OUR PROPERTY SEIZED FOR NO REASON.....AS IF WE WERE BEING THROWN IN JAIL TO ROT WITH NO TRIAL.

    I want to also say, despite the look and feel of it, mass murders are not on the increase in the USA in recent years. There have been some level of mass murders with all kinds of weapons for many (over 150) years. The data shows most of the recent blip up started in 1963. And you may want to look at our mental health laws starting in the 1960's.
  10. Ludwig II

    Ludwig II Member

    Right, the people have the right to carry arms as members of a well regulated militia. Is or are there any specific body or bodies in existence as militia regulators? Would they have powers to require prospective members to undergo psychiatric profiling (how many armies around the world bother finding what makes soldiers tick?) and would they have the authority or systems available to them to prohibit unsafe persons from gun ownership?

    Add to that, what would constitute "unsafe persons"? A different political viewpoint? Nationality of ancestors/skin colour/religion?

    The entire issue is monstrously tangled and I see no simple solution, save to educate all children that all other people have the right to live in peace, and hope they hang on to that concept all their lives. I am not optimistic.
  11. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Actually not JUST a militia. The right shall not be infringed in any manner. So don't get so hung up on militia only.

    This right is forfeited when rights are lost. Criminals lose their rights. Insane people who are prone to harm others lose their rights. We do have such background checks, contrary what you may have read.
  12. Old Bob

    Old Bob Member

    I don't think ignorant foreigners should be allowed to post in this thread.

    If you don't live here or know any of the victums? then shut your mouth

    The reason for things like this is not guns.
  13. Ludwig II

    Ludwig II Member

    Ignorant foreigner? I'm just a human being who has asked some questions. If someone asked me a question, I most certainly wouldn't tell them to shut their mouth.

    We had Dunblane and Hungerford here. We have nutters just like anywhere else in the world and, like you ,we don't understand them either.

    A point I will make is that the internet removes barriers; there are no foreigners, only people who share in the joys and the sadnesses of life.
  14. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    I don't at all understand the harshness of the response. You asked reasonable questions. You didn't tell us how to run things. Perhaps we are a bit sensitive, after all, the Chinese government openly suggested we ban guns in the USA. For our best interest, don't you see......
  15. Old Bob

    Old Bob Member

    Ok we'll ban your business/livelyhood how does that sound? Its in your best interest don't you see...
    Nothing pollutes like a two stroke engine lets ban two strokes.

    Lets introduce legislation to tax and force motored bike riders to insure and register their bikes as motorcycles oh and get a motorcycle license too. and for your best interest we'll introduce helmut laws.
  16. professor

    professor Active Member

    In order to take over the government completely by the Communist Resident, the right of self defense must be removed.
    We do not know the degree of involvement by "Black Ops" professionals in these murders - maybe not this last one, but for sure in the theater murders.

    When the Resident quoted the Declaration of Independence, each time he left out the phrase "By their creator". Thus, in his mind, rights come from government.

    Actually, the surprising thing to me is that there is not more of this.

    50+ years of being told we are cosmic accidents by white frocked Carl Sagans and his companions on "Public TV", with similar education in govt. schools. Combined with the glorification of guns being the ultimate power in movies. Then we cannot forget video games.
    Could this all have been intentional?

    A recent article in Pravda questioned the intelligence of Americans to elect a known communist to the highest office, saying they suffered for over 75 years underneath it and in their last election only 17 percent voted communist. They also know about the election being rigged by George Sorros.
    Now, I do not believe everything from Russia Today (RT on Youtube) but this sure is a switch.
  17. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

  18. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    I own a number of guns (and a CC permit), some were bought when there was no background check, or ID for that matter. Today there is no background check at gun shows. Of all the hundreds I know that have guns, only one was where someone was killed. Ruled self defense. I personally, have had to pull a weapon for fear of being robbed. Guns, cars, forks, knives etc, don't kill people, only people can kill people. Guns just make it easier, and not very personal.
  19. graucho

    graucho Active Member

    I went to my shooting range for my weekly practice session . Since the tragedy, I can't believe the gun sale section of the range. The owner tells me ever since the gov't started talking about gun control after the shooting he has sold over 2,700 registered pistols, and his acquaintances at the nations gun shows have sold out tens of thousands of their stock. He has pistols back ordered from manufacturers all over the world due to the nations fear frenzy of gov't restriction/control. This is only "ONE" gun store.

    Between the media and the gov't, what a bunch of morons causing another $hit storm. Start flapping your wings and clucking around the chicken coop causing the countries common folk to gather a few more million firearms and ammo. Many in the hands of untrained, dillweeds who will take aim at anything that scares them. I don't even know what to say anymore. The gun range is now full with a waiting list to practice. Practice is probably a good thing. Used to just walk in. Now I have to schedule a week in advance. Nice going @#%$#*!!!. Hows acting tuff and pointing your finger-threatining the second amendment working for you now? Dumb @sses.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  20. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    I respectfully disagree. Unless it is a "face to face" transaction where a non-dealer sells to another non-dealer, the background check is required. I have purchased a number of rifles from licensed dealers at gun shows and every single one of those transactions had a background check.