4-strokers: What oil do you use? What does your drained oil look like?

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by Max-M, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. Max-M

    Max-M Member

    My bike has a Huasheng F142 49cc four-stroke. I use Mobil 1 synthetic, 10-30. I've been changing the oil about every 300 miles. This is probably overkill. But with a crankcase that only holds about 1/4 of a quart, oil changes are nearly free -- even with the good Mobil 1 stuff. And the oil changes are very easy (and non-messy) with a "Drainzit" oil drain hose permanently attached to my engine's oil drain hole (pic attached). I bought the Drainzit from equipment2u.com.

    My engine runs great, and I'm probably up to about the fifth oil change. But the new oil going into the engine looks like maple syrup, and the oil that I drain out when I change it is completely black. It feels normal between my fingers, and it smells normal. But -- again -- it is BLACK.

    Any thoughts on this, anybody? Should I be concerned? What could be causing this?

    Thanks...
     

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  2. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    I run nothing but 5w40 diesel oil in my small 4 stroke engines and change oil every 50 hours or so except for my generator which gets about 150 hours of use before oil change during each long camping trip we take . Most small 4 stroke do not have oil filters and diesel oil is designed to hold lots of contaminants in suspension without damaging the engine. Diesel oil also has higher TBN (total base number to protect against acid) and superior additive package as compared to gas engine oil which makes it ideal in small engines.

    Here are the gas engines I use diesel 5w40 in for many years without issues:
    1. Pressure washer with subaru engine (this enine starts in first pull every time).
    2. Briggs Stratton Lawn mower (its only 8 years old)
    3. Honda Lawn Mower, it over 10 years old
    4. Trike Bike with HS 49cc engine, Its 2-3 years old
    5. 30" riding mower with 13.5 HP Briggs and Stratton .
    6. 3300 Watt digital inverter generator. It is 2 years old and I run 12-14 hours/day when I go camping and I won't change oil in it while I'm camping. I've gone as high as 150 hours on it during a camping trip before changing oil at home. Its a Bolily chinese made generator and offers Honda quality (it is quiet, has auto-throttle, and is super reliable) at a Hyundai price.
    7. 1.3 liter Wankel engine, 21 years old and I run 15w40 HDEO in summer and 5w40 diesel oil in winter
    8. 1997 Ford Taurus 3.0L engine nothing but 5w40 diesel in it
    9. Jeep Liberty with 115,000 miles, nothing but 5w40 in it since new but I'm cheating since it has a 2.8L 4 cylinder italian made diesel in it.
    10. Jeep Grand Cherokee, nothing but 5w40 ESP ($10/quart) in it since new but I'm cheating since it has a 3.0 liter mercedes benz diesel in it.
     
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  3. Barry

    Barry Member

    Hello Max,
    Which part # Drainzit fits the F142? I'm just finishing up a build with a shift kit and it looks like oil changes will be a pain with this kit.
    Thanks
    Barry
     
  4. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    @ skyliner

    so why is normal 4-stroke oil recommended for petrol engines instead of diesel oil.

    If diesel oil is a better lubricant, why doesn't every manufacture use it in "all" their engines???
     
  5. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    Several reasons:
    Non-ESP diesel oils have higher additive package levels which can contaminate catalytic convertoers
    Diesel oils are typically higher in viscosity and that hurts CAFE goals automakers have to meet.

    Diesel oils are better lubricant in that they are designed to keep soot in suspension, handle high temps associated with turbochargers, and have longer lasting additive packages...many of these qualities aren't necessary in automobiles that are non-diesel. However, I feel that diesel oil will benefit a small aircooled engine that has no oil filter because of these qualities.


    For my rotary engine (1.3L mazda rx7 vehicle), I use a ESP (Low SAP) diesel oil because it is designed to burn clean with no ash or other deposits. This is importaant to me since this engine is oil injected and injects from the oil pan into the engine to lubricate the apex seals.
     
  6. bigoilbob

    bigoilbob Member

    Hello Max M;

    I'm with you on the Mobil 1 synthetic, but I would use the weight/grade recommended. If it's 10-30, fine. But if not, I recommend following directions. Lighter, or heavier, is not better. Especially if they recommend a lighter than 10-30 oil, the recommended Mobil 1 should be the best choice. As a petroleum engineer, I have tested viscosities of many oils, at many temperatures (part of our mud lab training). Mobil 1 viscosities changed less than any of the others with temperature. As for particle suspension, you are going to clean out your crankcase pretty well with any oil change. So called "diesel oils" might hold more c**p when cool/cold, because they have more gel strength, but nothing can beat the thin film performance (what you want in a small engine), of Mobil 1. I run it in my GX35 bike. It has a NuVinci hub, which enables me to have good low end performance, which, in turn, taxes the engine. I have had NO problems, but I am sure I would have overheated had it not been for the forced air cooling and the great thin film performance of Mobil 1 at higher temps.
     
  7. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    @bigoilbob

    It's great to see that we have someone qualified in the forum to separate oil myth from oil fact.

    Oil and oil/fuel ratios are such a emotionally driven subject and a topic that can quickly degenerate into non scientific tantrums; rants and tirades by those who are fixated on supporting their belief, which is the definition of a "religion" and in the case of those who are off the deep end, "fanaticism".
    Combine the two concepts with people diametrically opposed to each others beliefs and you have the makings of "civil war" over the topic of oil and oil/fuel ratios.

    It's not easy to stay clean and play it safe when hustling with the Ayatollahs who push the concept of an afterlife in heaven with 72 virgins but only if using their recommended oil at 200:1
     
  8. bigoilbob

    bigoilbob Member

    One critical caveat, and shame on me for not mentioning it. I'm an older guy, and my testing is also old. I am sure that mobil 1 is still the best, or among the best, but there are other synthetics out there that might be as good nowadays. Other folks might get me up to speed. But, synthetics still RULE. I don't care what additive packages (as amazing as they are) you put in motor oil refined from crude, the synthetics are the way to go. Whoops - screwed up again. My BMW Dakar 650 has a common lub source between the engine and (I think) transmission. It can not stand synthetic oil. I really don't know why, but BMW would have voided my warranty if I had gone that way. Moral - run a synthetic, of the recommended weight and grade, unless your manufacturer specifically says not to.
     
  9. Max-M

    Max-M Member

    Hey Barry: You want the Drainzit Model HON 1010 (fits the Huasheng's 10mm oil drain port).

    I checked Equipment2u.com where I bought mine in May 2011 (for $13.99 + $7.94 shipping), and they're out of stock. But it sounds like you've probably got a source.
     
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  10. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member


    Hmmmm, last time I checked Mobile 1 TDT 5w-40 is a diesel and Mobil 1 product....... Contrary to what was posted earlier, Mobil 1 on hundreds of used oil analysis postings on www.bobistheoilguy.com showed higher Fe wear levels then other synthetic oils...not sure how that relates to film strength but I'm thinking its not as good. Could it be that Mobil 1's oils are consistnetly on the thinner side of allowable range for a particular viscosity? Mobil 1's 5w30 is more like a heavy 5w20 and just barely squeaks on by as a 5w30. Regardless, I'll continue using 5w40 in most of my engines with several exceptions.
     
  11. bigoilbob

    bigoilbob Member

    That's why I admitted to not being up on the new synthetics. But I stand by my primary thesis that they are, when comparably compared (weight/grade/ recommended duty etc.) much better than crude based products. I am also not disputing that your referenced oil is a Mobil 1 product. I don't know. Just sayin' that the oil sellers know what they are doing, and that there is no advantage to using oil in an engine it's not built for.

    As for the relatively high iron count in Mobil 1, I agree that is bad. But I can not find any reference to it from your link (maybe I'm overlooking it), just your reference to "hundreds of used oil analysis postings". I have tested my engine oil myself, many times, and have always been very happy with the results. Not saying I'm right on Mobil 1 v other synthetics, I might be behind the curve. But can you reference any more than your recall of posted anecdotes. Real studies? There must be some.....

    Thanks Skyliner70cc;

    Bob D.
     
  12. The_Aleman

    The_Aleman Active Member

    I, too, use "diesel" oil in my Huasheng, my oil of choice is Shell Rotella T 15w-40. I change it every 6-10 weeks, it comes out looking pretty much like it went in.

    If your oil is black when you drain it, that could mean your engine is running too rich, as unburnt fuel often turns oil black on gasoline engines.
    Consider shutting off the petcock when your engine isn't running, if you aren't already. Shutting off petcock 10-15 seconds before shutting off engine helps too.

    HON1010, works very well, I bought mine here: http://www.amazon.com/Drainzit-HON1010-Changing-Honda-GX110/dp/B000PDOEGI
     
  13. Old Bob

    Old Bob Member

    You should use what the engine manufacturer recommends, if you attempt a warrenty claim with the wrong oil in the engine it will be denied.

    I did real world testing on several Honda GX31 and GX35 engines.
    Castrol GTX and Havoline brands were selected.
    10w-30 was used as recommended by Honda.
    At 2 hour intervals up to 10 hours camshaft lobe wear was measured.
    After initial break in there was no significant wear on the cam.
    from 10-100 hours wear was monitored at regular intervals while lobe wear did not change, the lash increased from wear of the axle hole in the cam,the pivot hole and axle of the rocker arm (shaft on GX35) push rods and sockets (GX31),rocker tip,valve stem tip.

    The Honda GX31/35 engines have a significant advantage over R/S and others in that the oil slinger acts as a centrifugal oil filter, it slings solids against the oil resevoir walls so that only clean oil mist enters the engine.
    Because Honda uses essentially a dry sump its important that the proper viscosity is selected,too heavy and the crankcase will not get proper lubrication.

    The key thing with oil in these small engines is during the break in period the oil should be changed often to get rid of the metal fines suspended in the oil.
     
  14. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    This will be my last post on this topic. Manufacturer recommendations? Really? Chinese HT engines specify automotive engine oil and not 2 stroke oil ;-)

    Auto manfacturers in the USA almost always now specify 5w20 but in overseas export markets almost always specify thicker oil....reason: CAFE standards (google term if it is unfamilar to you).

    You can't go wrong using a superior oil whether it be a 5w40 or a 15w40 HDEO.
     
  15. bigoilbob

    bigoilbob Member

    Last message? I guess I expected that. Also no real data on Mobil 1. Too bad, because I would have been genuinely interested in an actual study, as opposed urban mythology, with the enhanced credibility that comes from being posting it on a website.

    Separately, US manufacturers/sellers might very well recommend (suitable) "lighter" oils for fuel efficiency. But it's fine by me. Most cars, motorcycles and small engines (can't speak for Chinese mail order products, which I wouldn't buy anyhow*) last longer than ever because manufacturers work continuous improvement loops over product life cycles. If they recommended based on Uncle Fred's internet postings we would still be periodically filling our crankcases with kerosene to "loosen things up".

    Best to all

    * This is admittedly blind, uninformed bias, as I play it safe with my limited toy budget. No offense, and rebuts welcome.
     
  16. Old Bob

    Old Bob Member

    @skyline Castrol and Havoline are both motor oils for four stroke engines they are not two stroke oils.

    Mobil 1 wasn't tested because we were testing petroleum oils.Synthetics aren't recommened for break in.
     
  17. bigoilbob

    bigoilbob Member

    Fully understand, Old Bob. But did you respond to me by accident? None of my remarks referred, even tangentially, to any of yours. I read your last post, learned from it, and don't see any daylight (and little commonality) between what you and I said.
     
  18. Old Bob

    Old Bob Member

    you said

    and I replied to that comment with

    I also addressed skyliner's comment in the same post

    with

     
  19. bigoilbob

    bigoilbob Member

    Sorry for any misunderstanding, Old Bob. My comment on Mobil1 testing was not for you. It referred to other comments. In fact, none of my comments were intentionally meant to respond to you, or referred to anything you posted. But I do read your posts, learn from them and I can not think of anything I disagree with you about.........
     
  20. Old Bob

    Old Bob Member

    No problem. I'll keep synthetics in mind next time Honda releases an engine in the M4 range.
     
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