Alternative engines

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by MotorbikeMike, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. Hi all, today I spoke with Whizzer, and pleaded our case about a "junior" Whizzer, or "Mini-Whizz" or whatever it might be called. It would be based on the exsisting engine, and also availble loaded into the exsisting Whizzer motorbike, if it turns out to be a viable product. Many states will not allow the Whizzer to be a Moped, and this would allow them to do that, keeping the 49cc engine at about 2hp, brand-new, not broke oin, maybe making 2-1/8 or so broke in. I do not know if they will endorse this idea, but, if I get positive results from my guy there, perhaps, an email showing of support could be established, so the membership here could make themselves heard on this subject. What do you guys think?

    Mike
     

  2. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    i think...right the **** ON!!! whatever i can do to help you help the guy help whizzer, please let me know.

    thank you mike, i know that was a major step to take, i hope like heck we can all pull this off!

    an american happy-time...i'm about to pee my pants.

    "Whizzer-2" to designate HP? that's just my excitement talking.
     
  3. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    Sounds excellent to me. Thanks.
     
  4. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    i skipped a part.

    i can do a mass-mailing to the entire membership, if we get that far, and there are a lot of ways for me to play it up on the board, just give me a chance :)
     
  5. contacting membership

    HI Augi, I spoke again to Whizzer, and amoung other things we discussed the Whizzer 49. Along with other things about it, I discussed using a std piston from another bike (ie Honda, Kawa, suzuki) and not "re-inventing the wheel" at that point. This project is completely viable, using the exsisting Whizzer bike, and just doing a small-bore barrel, and moving the crank pin to adjust the stroke (which I explained to him). Addionally, I assured him, that I've ridden 2hp 4-strokes, and outran an auto-clutch Whizzer with one, untill I peaked at 30 and the whizzer caught me and blew by. I also discussed the fact, that he would have no legal worries with the 49, as it would be UNFEASABLE to bring it up to 138, as the crank is expensive and not likely to ever get changed. One other powerful point in our favor here, is that I was talking to him, finding out how many states that are NOT allowed moped status on Whizzer, and that, therefore they are not very sucessful in selling to, I'm trying to show him that this engine will open new markets for him, and that they will make money with this project.

    They have a quoate from thier suppliers as to the cost to do this. I am not at liberty to divulge that at this time, but I can tell you, that from a business standpoint, it is very do-able!

    You must be now wondering, "well, where are we at on this thing"? He was busy yesterday (agian) and we did not get the convo finished. They would not be much cheaper than the 138's as it will, at first, cost even more to make the "Baby Whizzer" tho it will probably be priced a little lower, in the case of Chinese motor-scooters, usually 100.00 less for the small engine.

    I think it would be a very good idea, if here, you and your "guys" did the promoting of concept, not me. Oftentimes I have wondered how well accepted I, and my ideas are here, not amoung the few, but amoung the masses. Primary promotion would be much more sucessful if you did it here.

    The fact that I'm so burned out on the whole "stick the engine (cheapest one i could get) into the cheapest bike I could get, and run it like a little naked animal (no fenders, no lights, no rack etc) may emerge at times, and is certainly not good for Images sake. Most of the time I make no comment whatsoever about builds in the gallery because of this very reason, and the fact that I built about 30-35 of those myself already. BUT if you look on my gallery http://www.simpsonmotorbikes.com/picutres.html you will find that many of my bikes were vintage americans, that I scrounged up, and restored myself. This many of the guys could do, if they wanted to.

    The most important part of this early part of the "campaign" will be to get my guy at Whizzer to make a Yahoo mailbox (so we do not just fill up his business mail with wannabe ideas) and then get the people who have the interest to write him, to tell him what they think, and if indeed they, or friends would want one .

    Here is an inside tip that is very important. In the time I have been in Motor Bicycles, MOST of the guys are 45+ yo, and even up into thier 70's, Whizzer KNOWS that it needs to reach the younger market, you cannot survive if your market gets old and dies!

    Maybe there should be a little questionaire section, and then personal comments by each respondent? Pertanant info would include many market ideas.
    All below are about Owner/Rider
    Age
    State/maybe city?
    What he now rides, how many he has,
    How many miles he rides
    What do his friends think of it
    How many might be more interested if it were a better(complete, and higher quality) bike
    Would they somehow come up with about 1600 for a "Total Bike"
    Or around 700 for the kit (including alternator, wiring harness, Whizzer tank, and good controlset?

    Maybe a section, would Dad buy one for his son?

    I will think more, let me know what you think, and what ideas I may have not seen.

    Mike

    PS I DID ask him if he would like to be the Only True American Moped, he seemed to like that idea!
     
  6. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    i just got in this morning...the wheels are still spinning in the gravel.

    wow, many good things to ponder, i will come back in later and give it my best shot.
     
  7. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    price: i'm about to do a complete flip and begin promoting a $600 system (GEBE) because of political correctness...

    more later...as you and your guy talk, start to get input about what he'd like to see on a market survey.
     
  8. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    this is now my favorite thread :)

    insofar as it is my business, and no more...the other thread is still doing it's job. as soon as we all see we are on the same "side" but that it's only that we all got here thru different sets of circumstances...anyway, you know what i mean about that, it'll work out. to put a positive spin to it: i look at the number of crossroads in my life that got me here, then i multiply it by all your crossroads, then i multiply it by all the hundreds of members...that's astounding enuff to help me overcome a lot of negativity. i'm not leading anything, i'm being guided thru this by the response.

    so...i'm not surprised at the reasonable cost of some relatively minor retooling (i'm formally trained in mechanical drafting and am experienced in the ways of production & line-design) to add another engine to the fleet.

    i'd like to suggest that whizzer consider eating that startup tho, releasing the product at a decent target price then relying on a market poised to pay it back thru number of sales. i just deleted a big impassioned speech about why i feel that way. let's just say henry ford had it right.

    more later :)
     
  9. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    I like the idea of the 49 engine looking very similar (if not almost identical) to the 138. A person could have the cachet of riding a Whizzer, while still being legal. And those inclined to power (A major portion of the MBc crowd) would be able to go with the 138, and only enthusiasts might be able to tell the difference. As for the price, I have $2,225 into my next project already. So you can see what I'm willing to pay for good reliable transport.
     
  10. Continuing with the Whizzer people

    HI all, yes Augi they will if they build, they will release at a price targeted toward the market. I'm now working with them, to consider how to lower the costs and I have it!

    Rather than using thier expensive chassis, I propose that they use a very fine Schwinn Repop that I know of in Taiwan (probably the one that Schwinn themselves commissioned), using one of the better Schwinn repop frontends, (they are not real good, but cheap) then using the rest of the Whizzer stuff, thus driving the cost down to a more do-able level, and in the meantime returning the Whizzer to what it really was, an affordable fun low-maintenece motorized bicycle.

    This is my most recent submission to them.

    Van, good point that we had neglected for the "survey" "How much have you spent building each one of your bikes"
     
  11. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    agreed!!

    food for another thread later...using the basic but better import parts available (105G Steel, etc...) there's nothing stopping us from developing a plain-jane felt-style made in usa frame "MBc-Certified for motorizing" and "Whizzer-Approved"...done right, you can offer up a heavy-duty "cheap" foundation for about $400...and create a few new jobs in a few different shops scattered around rural america, make frames from simple templates. very easy to setup and manage...something to think about for later.

    the survey will be formally constructed and implemented when whizzer is ready to be involved with it...i'll certainly do my part. consider when the time is right introducing me to your guy and explaining where i fit in, i'll stay out of the rest of it unless asked for input.
     
  12. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

  13. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    I was reading the thread about the Whizz-In. I have to admit some concern about 15 out of 75 bikes not completing a 65 mile run. (I didn't want to pose this question in the public thread). What kind of problems were encountered? Were the ones that failed predominantly vintage models? Modified ones? Any observations about this?
     
  14. Dead bikes at the Whiz-in

    Hi Van, let me try to remember, 1 Cushman uknown problem.
    Tim's Excelsior whet out when he took a spill (NE5 powered).
    Tim Middleton's used NE5 went out with some form of Aurto-clutch failure.
    Miles OHV #1 ( mine is #2) went out with his experimental clutch self-destructing.
    Ken's Vintage Whizzer with Koehnke OHV Ign probs I think.
    I watched a poorly running orig, that he had to restart every stop sign by pedalling furiously, not start finally one time.
    One vintage guy popped a chain and had no masterlink.

    As far as I can remember (and I did not take a poll, as I did not want to be seen to be gloating) we had one out of gas, and the rest who went out with unspecified problems, were vintage bikes, with vintage engines. The problems would be split between lack of maintenence, and old bikes/engines with parts that can give out, remember that orig Whizzers have points and condensors, and Magneto's and coild that would likely be no newer that 1960's construction.
    As far as I know, there were no modern Whizzer engine problems, and only the 3 above failed to finish.

    My bike had an approxamate total running time of 7 miles (from primary assembly, all components except used wheels and tires from my 08) and ran strong the whole 65 or so miles and plenty of up and down hill to.

    Thanks for not making a public issue of this, as I do not think that the bikes are to blame, but some might.

    Mike
     
  15. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    Thanks for your responce. I had spaced on the fact that there were bikes other than Whizzer's involved, and I can understand that with vintage bikes there can be trouble. You have eased my concern. A general observation; isn't it amazing how many people get involved in a hobby like this without even a basic understanding of maintenance, or even a grasp of the workings of an internal combustion engine? So many people seem to love the form, and are clueless about the function. They buy the Chinese motors because they want that frame mount, motorcycle look, and they don't have much money, but they are often the people who should be buying a low maintenance system because they can't fix them themselves, and they can't afford to take them to a shop. They would be Totally lost without MBc to hold their hands and guide them through even the simplest maintenance issues. (That's all easy for me to say, having an an auto, RV, boat repair shop at my disposal where I can bug real mechanics whenever I have a question, and use their tools to do any maintenance.)
    Anyway, to make this not totally off topic. I can't stress enough how important reliability is for a vehicle for the masses.
     
  16. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    Dax is sure talking up his new kit. Am I correct in assuming that the engine is a Honda clone? How long have those clones been around? From reading around the forum, I get the impression that the initial "take" on them is that the motor itself is better quality than the 2-strokes, but the assembly leaves something to be desired. I think I've read of 3 people (including Dax) noting that the valves were not set correctly from the factory). I can't recall anything about the longevity of the engine. Is the cylinder plated or sleeved? Bearings or bushings? This is all just curiosity right now. I doubt that I will purchase a 50cc unless the authorities come down on me for the size of the engine I'm building around now.
     
  17. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    this one: i am waiting on pins and needles for word of how i can best help whizzer.
     
  18. Whizzer News

    Well, that's provacative, isn't it? Currently there is no really big new news, I have appealed to the one there who is the best for me to work with. Sadly, they are very busy working on thier "chopper" which is pedal-less and in the Motorcycle class in ALL states. Most of thier Dealers will NOT be able to sell this bike, and many, like myself, will probably not want this bike around, as they will not want thier customers seeing (and maybe wanting) the bike that they cannot sell.

    On another note, inasmuch as they are reducing thier prospective market with this product, I'm busy explaining to them that the proposed "Whizzer Junior" will open new markets, and help the company expand into the "Full Moped" market in many states. Additionally, I'm working with them to consider using a true bicycle as a chassis, reducing both the weight, and cost of the bike. This would place them more favorably in the Market Share.

    As a result of my influence (weak tho it may be) This site was "Lurked" by my contact at Whizzer this week. Seems he really liked my "ChickenShirt MotorBikers" article. One concept of having him come here, was to see that the motor bicycle community is much larger than one might expect.

    Sadly tho, he was exposed to the little bird factor, at the same time. Little bird you ask? Yes the cotton-pickin Cheap-Cheap of the North American Cheapie-Bird.

    BTW I do not think that thier "Chopper Project" is common news, so best not metioned outside this area untill they have released (Unveiled?) it, so that I will not steal any of thier thunder by dimming thier glory.

    Maybe tho, if I did let the cat out of the bag, it might eat a bunch of those NACB's?

    Mike
     
  19. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    i am sooo not worried about the "cheapos"...and i advise you guys to take the same 'tude...many benefits to a usa based supply? lobbying power to shut out the illegals. new "cheapo" alternatives (they will gladly pay more for "made in usa"). keep it bicycle-universally-installable and watch them beat a path, i promise. every old bicycle in the country will have a whizzer-2 (i wouldn't use "lite" to describe any vehicle/engine i wanted to sell) installed on it. it's not the "cheap" so much as the "universal" so they can be cheap elsewhere if that's what they want.
     
  20. iRide Customs

    iRide Customs Member

    Augie and I talked about his in great detail a while back and I agree with you Mike, America is full of cheap *******s.

    Dan
     
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