Are We Outlaws ??

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by robin bird, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. robin bird

    robin bird Member

    When I first got my motorized bike I felt like i was an outlaw !! I thought it was illegal (in court it probably is) It was such fun to fly down lakeshore blvd.--i was the first one in our town!! i even flew
    past 2 police on bicycles turned around and went the other way
    Now some of the luster has worn off--but still fun -still only 5-6 of us outlaws--maybe we should hold up a bank LOL or take hostage some tourists.
    Any of you guys feel this way ?? one thing many of you are PIONEERS !
     

  2. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Harley Riders have lost their "bad boy outlaw" image, so I doubt we are looked upon as "outlaws". :)
     
  3. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    We're the .01% ers
     
  4. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    ALL DEPENDS WHAT JUDGE YOUR STANDING BEFORE!

    This ain't the combustion chamber, so I won't get started here :jester:

    :jester: Does anybody know if Kerf has ever been before Herman Thomas? LOL? :jester: LOL!
     
  5. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Leave Herman alone, he's got enough problems.
     
  6. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    Hahaha! Glad you seen that! Your not kidding he's got problems!
     
  7. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Things are getting bad around here when a judge can't get a little kinky without somebody trying to make something out of it.
     
  8. Mike Hunt

    Mike Hunt Member

    it all depends on the laws where you live, how you ride and how you modify your bike (performancs vs looks vs utility). where i live its unregulated and possibly illegal, and i adjust my riding style accordingly. the other folks may or may not consider me to be an outlaw, but i sure feel like one.
     
  9. seanhan

    seanhan Member

    Definition of a outlaw !!!!

    "Someone who screws it up for the rest of us "
     
  10. safe

    safe Active Member

    You aren't an "Outlaw" when you cheat a little with maybe a little more power than allowed or a little more speed. You become an "Outlaw" when you no longer bother to even consider the law.

    It's a matter of degree... we are all "Outlaws" a little (like all being "sinners" a little) but it's whether you go full bore in a direction that is known to be against the rules or whether you hold back.

    A "Criminal" is just someone exercising his freedom to do what he wants at someone else's expense. An "Outlaw" acts on their freedom and does not consider the consequences, but it can be a "victimless crime" when the "Outlaw" does his own thing. To get to "Criminal" you have to cross the next line after "Outlaw" and have a real victim. Without a victim you are still under the "Outlaw" definition.

    Something like that... :whistling:
     
  11. robin bird

    robin bird Member

    I have toned things down greatly but i still love the feel of freedom you get--no licence -go almost anywhere for a reasonable sum and feel exilerated every day i ride. Most of our freedoms are being eroded and when you experience a freedom in our increasingly controlled world you feel like an outlaw (a GOOD one tho}
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  12. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Oh yeah - I'm with you there bro!

    One of the most liberating things is driving a motorized bicycle that requires no license, no insurance, no registration, and no state inspection. In some ways, it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on!

    Buy a moped or motorcycle, and everyone wants a piece of your wallet for the "privilege" of you moving your fat @ss from point to point........
     
  13. safe

    safe Active Member

    I live in Missouri where the soil is deep clay. Every year in the winters the roads freeze and thaw and wear out really rapidly. The government here needs to spend a lot of money all the time to maintain the roads and it's because of those high costs that they need money from someplace to pay for it all.

    Ebikes are so lightweight that we don't actually cause any damage to the roads... but cars and trucks aren't really the problem either... it's the weather that breaks the roads down the most.

    So who should pay?

    The reason that ebikes and small motorized bikes are not yet taxed is that they are designed mostly to fit a segment of youth society (teenagers) that are not expected to have money yet. It's a way to allow kids to get around without needing a car. Another reason is to allow older people to get around without needing to pedal, they are usually not considered "cash cows" either.

    However, if everyone really switched to ebikes and the sources of revenue for road repairs dried up then we would face the day (one day) when we would somehow be taxed for using the roads. But the tax might be done in an indirect way, like through income or real estate taxes.

    Registration is just another tax... it's the price we pay to keep the Roman Empire going.... and what have the Romans done for us?

    Sewage
    Roads
    etc... (a reference to Monty Pythons "Life of Brian")

    ...but like the Romans, it was better back in the early days of the Republic. But those days seem to be gone now, we are into the Empire at this point and high taxes are the way it's going to be from now on. The Romans tried in vain to restore the Republic, but you can never go back.

    The "Outlaw" ebiker or motorized biker can potentially be a risk because it attracts negative attention. But if there was a universal "moped" category where these machines could be taxed and registered like mopeds then everyone can be happy. The "Outlaw" motorized biker gets his higher power levels (illegal as bicycles) and the government gets the extra cash.

    The answer might be the creation of a Federal Moped Law which would be like the Federal Ebike Law only allowing moped levels of power and speed.

    (Missouri already does this and allows up to three horsepower)
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  14. Hawaii_Ed

    Hawaii_Ed Member

    I am always concerned when I see the 5-0, I start ghost pedaling like crazy! I bet one day it will catch me. I do cross the line on speed quite a bit, but normally I am trying to keep up with traffic, not weaving in and out :)
     
  15. POPS

    POPS Member

    Here in Victoria BC there is a lot of bicycle Cops.

    They are REALLY SNARLIE. Maybe because they don't have a motor???

    Even if you were peddeling a bike with a gas motor on the street, You would face the same fines as if you were useing the motor!!

    No Ins,Reg,Illeagal transport...ETC..ETC. $5000.00+ Bike taken away,Gonzo!

    They wrote the law VERY CLEAR here. No and,if,but...!



    Safe

    I am going E/Bike here and staying with in the limits of the law!!

    500 watt,No gears and I won't have to over amp anything to stay ahead of the traffic. Bike lanes here and trails that E bikes are allowed on.

    During the best of times here traffic is nuts. Aside from that it is gridlock for hours on end, Inching your way to the next stop light.

    When you see an old lady on a peddle bike going the same way as you are in a car
    down the road, Take a picture because you won't see her again.

    She will be so far in front of a guy in a car, that she will be watching TV after supper
    when a guy gets home next door to her.

    So ,It's not just the old folks or the kids, but It's also about getting around
    10 times faster than the traffic (being Legal) and costing next to nothing!

    At least I won't have to look in my rear view mirror to wonder when it's my turn.

    Sorry all if I had a little rant and I didn't mean to T anyone off but in my world
    I can stay within the law and be way ahead of the game...POPS
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  16. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Pops

    Try riding naked, cops might not even notice the motor.
     
  17. safe

    safe Active Member

    I think my point was that governments tax "because they can".

    When (and if) ebikes become enough of a mass marketed product which people use regularly in large numbers it would be then that the government might take an interest in ebikes as a new revenue stream. Governments aren't dumb (well not completely anyway) and they are good at recognizing where the money is located. This is why the founding fathers had such a paranoia about government because they knew that if it can grow itself by preying on the people it will. (and always does)

    Ebikes are at present in a state of "grace" in the eyes of the law in some areas and considered a problem in others. It kind of depends on where you live I think... cities seem to not want them, but suburbs see them as okay.

    The "Outlaw" biker with his overpowered machine has the potential to attract attention to ebiking and motorized biking and that "could" force either a crackdown or a change in policy that would require registration.

    All governments (federal, state and local) are hungry for money now... so the primary thing to fear is a money grab. If all of a sudden these motorized bikes require a $25 yearly registration fee that's going to alienate a lot of people and they will either quit or decide to go all the way to a motorcycle. Motorcycles are pretty much without rules except for the usual traffic laws, so if you really want unrestrained performance you can always just pay for it.

    Money, power, politics.... it's always the same... we're human.

    Bribery?

    One could imagine some sort of government program where if you pay a small fee and get some sort of "moped license" that if you are then pulled over you could show that and get off no matter what modifications you've done on your machine. (maybe if you have a valid drivers license)

    I've never been hassled... so it's not at present a big problem.

    ------------------------------------

    Kerf, you are quoting one of my ancestors on my moms side of the family. :tt1: (Sam Adams)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
  18. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Could be we're related, I come from Adams blood myself. Small world.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2009
  19. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    Boy, Judge Thomas would really dig you!:jester:
     
  20. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Dirty white boy, that's me although wife says dirty OLD man.