Are We Outlaws ??

[safe]

Reagan is seen (historically) as one of our greatest presidents because he took a lousy situation that was left over from Jimmy Carter and turned it around to give America a couple of decades of prosperity. That "momentum" has finally fizzled out... but it was a great ride while we kept our focus. My guess is that after Obama we will again seek that type of leadership. (Obama is most similiar to Jimmy Carter, so history repeats)

The reason I mention Reagan is that he has many witty sayings that most people are not aware of. (he had a very insightful sense of humor)

Anyway...

When it comes to governments setting policy and laws he said:

"The closest thing to immortality on this earth is a federal government program."

...my point being that the Federal Ebike Law might not be immediately acted upon by the states (as they can still set their own rules if they choose) but over time the states will naturally gravitate to the Federal standard. This will come about because those that manufacture ebikes will want to be able to sell the same product in all their stores across the country. If Walmart wants to sell an ebike nationwide it now has different rules to deal with.

The Federal Ebike Law is a "safety law". So anyone that does not build to it's conditions risks lawsuits if anyone gets injured. The person that is bringing the lawsuit would have an easy time winning because all they need to do is point to the law and show that it was sold in non-compliance.

In my opinion...

The Federal Ebike Law is "acceptable" as a baseline and it can be worked with and adapted to so that some pretty fun machines can be created. You just have to be a little more creative and focused than the sort of "wild and crazy" logic that the "Outlaw" tends to use.

There's a point where too much power is just "silly" for a bicycle. If you really want to ride a high powered two wheeled vehicle then you ought to just accept the risk and responsibility that those speeds involve. There's a point where you need to realize it's time for a motorcycle. You should always ride with a helmet and probably leathers too. (I do on my eMoped every time)

When you step up into the higher risk areas (more speed, more power) you need to realize that everything having to do with that means more costs. The chances of injury ($$$) goes way up. The registration goes up. The insurance goes up. So in part it's that people who are choosing this "Outlaw" mindset are just acting without wisdom... they just don't see the "cause and effect" of power and risk.

Americans are free... but also responsible for their actions.

 

[spad4me]

Reagan is seen (historically) as one of our greatest presidents because he took a lousy situation that was left over from Jimmy Carter and turned it around to give America a couple of decades of prosperity. That "momentum" has finally fizzled out... but it was a great ride while we kept our focus. My guess is that after Obama we will again seek that type of leadership. (Obama is most similiar to Jimmy Carter, so history repeats)

The reason I mention Reagan is that he has many witty sayings that most people are not aware of. (he had a very insightful sense of humor)



This type of post got you BANNED on other sites.
Here you go again.
I will simply keep quiet on what is KNOWN NOW that Regan did .

 

[arceeguy]

Maybe this thread should be moved into the "Combustion Chamber" forum - this way you guys can go for the jugular without fear of being banned. But what happens in the Combustion Chamber stays in the combustion chamber.............

 

[safe]

My point was to bring up the essential wisdom about the eternal life of laws and government once established. Reagan was just a "prop" that was used to highlight that fact.

 

[spad4me]

Every time I MOUNT my trusty motorized bicycle.
And buzz off into the sunset .

Yea it still works.
Outlaw ..Yea Right.

 

[machiasmort]

I look at us as citizens that are pushing the bounds of Law inorder to make the world a better place.

Technically, if you are acting outside the Laws, your an Outlaw.

I'm tryin to come up w/a Costume that will be MB friendly this year. The Legend of sleepy Hollow is an excellent tale and fine litterary work. The "headless horseman" thing would be funny as h e c k w/MB! Check out my page, I could carve a serious pumpkin too! Use your dremel and watch what you come up with!

 

[safe]

I look at us as citizens that are pushing the bounds of Law in order to make the world a better place.

My point is that concept is not how things actually work.

The "Outlaw" that gets a ticket in a dark alley somewhere does nothing to advance any cause... acting as an individual you are punished as a "violating" individual and nothing more.

The only way to actually alter the laws is to use collective action either as a form of mass protest (staged) or to use the legal system itself and do things like gather signatures for a petition.

"Outlaws" in the motorized bike world only carry the "illusion" of change...

(it's self deception when you really look at it honestly)

 

[machiasmort]

We are not "lone riders", here.

Although I've never attended, these guy's form rallys, ect.

The very nature of this website is support. If any one of our members ever got into trouble, I'd write and send a letter on their behalf in a heartbeat! Provided they weren't acting like a blow hole.. Regardless if I like their point of view or not.

Kind of hard to deffend a guy's actions who sits in a bar all night and runs over a little old lady on her way to the mailbox tho!

 

[Youngbird]

An "outlaw" from my perspective is anyone who lives their life their own way and if that is pushing the bounds of legality or the corporate /government mentality then so be it. If it werent for the outlaws of this world things would never change for the better or worse. We would be stagnant as a society and slowly rot away.

The world needs outlaws(not criminals mind you) to keep a new and fresh perspective on things and to advance in achievements and invention.

Those of us who are MBers are surely outlaws to some and visionaries to others because we are pushing the bounds of current transportation values as noted in certain threads here. Thats why we are looked at oddly by some of the "johnny laws" out there and "hated by bike shops" and we probably scare some old ladies and kids.

If you are a MBer....you're an outlaw alright, but it need'nt be a bad thing. JMHO.

 

[safe]

Actually you're an "Outlaw" only when you break the laws that have been clearly spelled out for motorized bikes in your area. (the rest is imaginary) The difference is not a "frame of mind" but the machine itself.

This is the point of discussing this to make the people who simply are unaware that laws exist to become aware of them. It's more about "awareness of reality" than anything else. If your bike is technically legal where you live you are NOT an "Outlaw".

When people imagine that they are being "freedom fighters" for independence that doesn't really help anything. Inevitably the law catches up with the offender and they then react angrily to the law for them doing their job. It's a sort of self deception for people to do this.

Maybe the question to ask yourself is:

"Why do I not like the laws as they are?"

...the answer is usually that people are obsessed with increasing power levels in their bikes. From what I can tell just about all the "Outlaws" are really dealing with a sort of power addiction where they simply need to increase their fix to get the rush they used to get. Rather than polluting the "innocent" legal motorized biker with bad behavior (illegal machines) wouldn't it just be better if the "Outlaw" accepted their addiction and went up to the next level?

Couldn't "Outlaw" motorized bikers just become motorcycle riders instead?

Isn't that better for the "innocent" people?

When we talk about "Outlaw" motorized bikers we're usually not talking about improper reflectors or something silly like that... it's about power and speed and (usually) the flaunting of those abilities in front of the law for the purpose of getting a reaction. It's the concept of "rebellion against authority" that drives the "Outlaw" to raise the stink. From my perspective I'd rather that "those people" just buy a Harley Davidson motorcycle and a black leather jacket and be done with it. After all.... isn't it a little silly to be trying to be "bad" on a bicycle anyway? Wouldn't the true "bad boy rebel" want to ride a Harley?

Of course I say that knowing that there is a whole subculture of "chopper motorized bikes" that are living that lifestyle already.

It kind of gets back to the Chopper verses Road Racer split that took place long ago in motorcycles. The black leather "biker bar" types went for the Harley culture and the performance oriented (and generally more clean cut) types went for the Road Racer machines.

I suppose in the end we will end up with both in motorized bikes...