AutoClutch

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by Zomby Builder, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Once again Quenton has rescued Whizzer USA. He installed & machined a hardened bearing race in my autoclutch. It really works well now. I had less than 250 miles on the clutch when it started to not engage the one way bearings. I guess a guy like Quenton is only apprieciated by guys like me. THANKS Quenton! If anyone else has this issue he can do the job right!!
     

  2. Pics or it didn't happen! :grin:
     
  3. jbcruisin

    jbcruisin Member

    auto clutch

    Since we're talking clutches,I haven't said anything before but I bought an autoclutch on EBay about 6 weeks ago & it works great. It was reasonably priced & another guy said he has 1000 miles on his & still going strong. Anyone else bought one from them? Seems to be the only one available on Ebay. I bought it before I met up with Quenton or I would have checked with him first.
    Jay
     
  4. pics

    Sorry large, no pics. You have got to just trust me on this one...:evil::evil::evil::evil:

    Some autoclutches from the factory must work OK. Mine just happened to slip through QC as a defect. TWICE in a row... Maybe I'm just un lucky?? Maybe not. I do know the master Whizzer wrench is Quenton.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2008
  5. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Ray, I have several of the clutches made by 3rd Mel. Like Whizzer they made different versions. I had one of their clutches make me really sad at Dawson Springs, KY last year when the needle bearings welded themselves to the mounting shaft on the "Roller Road". I took over a year to obtain the bearings, and had a second one defect while the bearings were on order. The good news is I now have a supplier for the odd size bearings. BTW I paid $300.00 for them via Whizzer as a dealer, and now they are on ebay for about half. The clutch appears to be a modified "Comet" type clutch with a lot of special brackets. To me the 3rd Mel. unit has some likes & dislikes, beside the replacement parts problem, my other concern is the mounting system. It is necessary to remove the back wheel to install the smaller belt, the front belt path is changed and runs the belt between the belt guard mounting posts, and then the clutch is held in one place by the mounts. In a perfect world, mounting the clutch rigid would be OK, but if the rear belt sheeve isn't perfectly round & centered [which it isn't] the rear belt will tighten & slacken with each revolution of the wheel. The 3rd Mel clutch is also geared lower [10 X 1 approx.]. I only know of one in use by a friend of mine, and he recently asked for the bearing part numbers. Word of caution, check the grease on the bearings to make sure it doesn't run dry, and it should last a long time.
    I also feel it important to share a few more comments about good engineering, and not. The vintage Whizzer had bushings in the rear of the motor, a trunnion pin [#2405]pressed into a clutch arm [#2406] to fit the bushing in the case, and ended up with a very smooth, well engineered clutch system. The arm moved up and down without side play, and the front or rear belt had very little, if any effect, on the side tilt of the pulley. The current Whizzer uses a loosely fiting bolt to mount the arm to the motor via bushings that often fit loosely around the bolt, making it possible for the clutch to run at an angle. If you tighten the mounting bolt completely, then the spring no longer compensates for the rear belt sheeve. On all my new editon Whizzers I machined trunnion pins from my vintage Whizzer parts stock, pressed into the current arm and all works well. Remember if the pulleys are lined up, the belts last longer, transfers more power to the wheel, operates smoother, and is far less stressful on the automatic clutch bearing system. If anyone want pictures email me at quincy163@yahoo.com.

    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
  6. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    You mean guys like us. lol He has worked his magic for me several times before and I know more is on the horizon. Thank you Quenton.
     
  7. Quenton sent me some pics. I have to say I'm not the one to explain any of this but it looks pretty good man!

    Here's a crude explanation:

    1) 26mm
    2) 252 miles
    3) Bearing Sleeve
    4) Beginning
    5)Defective
    6)Finished
    7)First Cut
    8)Ready To Sleeve
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2008
  8. Just like us

    Yes This is for real. Mine is goooood. Q for autoprez!!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2008
  9. 150 miles

    At 150 miles the clutch still works great. Both previous Stock Whizzer clutches installed on this bike were beginning to not engage by 100 & both carped out completely before 200. The way it engages is more positive & it has not freewheeled on the one way bearings at all. The hardened steel sleeve shows no wear either.

    This bike is pretty lightweight for a Whizzer because it has a Schwinn springer for a front end that is a fraction of the weight of a Whizzer triple tree & downtubes. It also doesn't have lights or a battery, so minimal wiring. It's pretty quick with the modified NE5 so probably could say that it is very hard on clutches.
     
  10. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Zomby,
    I am thrilled the clutch is working correctly. Please keep me posted on the durability of the modified clutch hub.
    I also want to mention my concept about the clutch and a more powerful motor. All of my testing [2005 to current] indicates the more powerful the motor the less problems with the clutch. When a more powerful motor is used the shoes are thrown out with greater force, and locks the clutch quicker, switching the assembly from the weak point [the soft center bearing sleeve] causing the unit to turn as one piece. As I just stated the weak point of the clutch design is the soft bearing sleeve. Some of thier earlier versions tried to run needle bearings on a cast hub [no bearing race], and of course basic knowledge about bearings, especially small needle bearings, dictates that it might not work long. They next installed a bearing race to help, but instead of using a quality hardened sleeve, it looked like someone made them an a lathe [also a no no] with major tool marks and in my opion did a very poor job of hardening the sleeve. Of course many know that high speed needle bearings running anything other than a polished, hardened bearing race is very likely heading for problems. After many failed clutch assemblies, I modified a hub and sent it to Whizzer to show them a way to correct the clutch hub problems, however they went in another direction. Instead of using a quality hardened bearing race they elected to replace the 3 section needle bearing and 2 grease seals with ball bearings on the outside and a single one-way needle bearing in the center. First off they removed the grease seals, and I guess [not sure] they expected the ball bearing assembles would hold the grease in check, but of course the grease didn't have any problem "oozing" between the holes they cut in the hub to house the bearing. Some of the first hubs allowed so much grease to leak that it covered the shoes [my 2008 Ambassador didn't move forward at all out of the carton, and I had to clean the excess grease from the clutch shoes to make it operational]. Some of the holes were so big in the hub that the bearings fell out on the floor while servicing the clutch [removing all the grease from the shoes]. Instead of starting over and correcting the hole size, they used a punch and "peened" the aluminum around the bearing to hold it in place. Of course this method did little to stop the grease from leaving the center bearing. With a little research, I found a slightly thinner bearing that still allowed room for grease seals. Another surprize centers around the single section one-way bearing, In my opion it would have been wiser to stop and consider what happens when a smaller [steel] bearing in used in an aluminum hub. After a short time the clutch heats up and the aluminum expands more than the bearing, therefore the one-way bearing simply turned inside the hub and made it impossible to start the motor. I first discovered this problem when I rode my Ambassador to the gas station, shut off the motor, purchased gas, and then had to wait for almost 20 minuites for the aluminum hub to cool enough to hold the one way bearing in place [I was having major problems with the starter drive assembly at the time, and had to push start the motor]. BTW this is a very easy fix.
    I must admit I was surprized when some of the later units starting having the sleeve slide off the hub. BTW is also an easy fix.
    And now the good news, most, [not all] can be upgraded to work and last for a long time.
    And I am sure that most, if not all, of the clutch issues have been addressed by Whizzer in the latest edition of their automatic clutch.

    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2008
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