Best Commercial E Bike, Think I Found It

[Rhett]

RC electric motors for bikes

Yes, that's the guy,
I was really amazed at his ingenuity and how clean and professional his work looked and you could hardly tell he had done the conversion at all. The pictures I sent you of the big RC plane, has an electric motor almost that same size and its spining a prop nearly a foot and half and even though it has a nearly 8 ft. wing span, it only weighs about 7 pounds with the dual nickle metal hydride 4300 Ma batterys. Now I know that thing will go 'straight up' a number of times to 700 ft. on a single charge, what I don't completely understand is how an electric RC plane motor about the same size as mine, can be used to propel an E Bike and and rider that must weigh at least 200 lbs together or more and do it mile after mile with out the motor burning up! Hey I am not a rocket scientist by any means, but I do know that in my RC electric planes and helicopters that not only are the batterys given lots of room to cool, as well as the forward motion of the aircraft and the 'prop wash' to help cooling further, but with some prudent 'throttle management" you can get a lot of life out of the motors and barrerys, I am still using a few 4300 Ma Lithium polymer packs that must have at least 200 charges on them and still going strong. How can a guy take a large brushless RC motor like that and adapt it to that bike and keep every thing 'Cool" at the weights he is using it for? Another question Aussie or anyone, Whats the deal on Lithium Polymer batts? I have been using them for well over a half of a decade in my RC stuff, Yes they can be expensive, yes they can be a real 'Hazzard" if not handeled properly, but they are 1/2 the weight and lots of good out put, hold a charge 'forever' have no 'memory' and can fit in a smaller place than nickle metal, Lithium Ion, nicads, or lead acid, and the lithium polymer chemistry just keeps on getting better year after year. What do you see happening with Li-Po's regarding E-Bikes?--Take care-Rhett

 

[AussieJester]

what I don't completely understand is how an electric RC plane motor about the same size as mine, can be used to propel an E Bike and and rider that must weigh at least 200 lbs together or more and do it mile after mile with out the motor burning up!

The motors Matt and others are using are actully ~4 times more powerful than your hub motor, the problem one encounters when fitting a outruner is the rpm of them, as your well aware they have a high rpm rate FAR too high for WITHOUT some form of reduction....What Matt has done is build a redcution drive system to obtain a 10:1 (or there abouts)gear ratio...heres a pic of the latest SINGLE stage drive units Matt is fabrication (for ~$US200)

http://members.ii.net/~aussiejester/index/pictures/Single_stage_drive.jpg
http://members.ii.net/~aussiejester/index/pictures/Single_stage_drive_2.jpg

Matt also makes a double stage reduction, not reeeeallly sure the point of this TBH, It allows direct linking to the rear freewhel where as the top siibgle stage is hooked to a freewheel crank setup allowing use of the bikes gears through the motor (same as a jackshaft setup does on the lil 49cc motors) giving you some terrifying performance for a MTB :-S Why anyone would really want to hook up a RC motor directly to the rear is beyond me, hrmmz come to think of it, makes sense... the drive pictured was made for one of the moderators on Endless Sphere that doesn't know up from down ain't that right YPedal...Thankfully i won't have to witness the instal, i'm sure poor ol Matt must cringe when he sees the lack of forethought and effort put into installing these units :: shakes head :: they are also $US100 more than the single stage...

http://members.ii.net/~aussiejester/index/pictures/Two_stage+drive_2.jpg
http://members.ii.net/~aussiejester/index/pictures/Two_stage_Drive.jpg

Either way this is how the fellas are reducing the rpms of the outrunners to make them 'usable' in e-bike applications OF course this can be done away with but would involve using a HUGE rear sprocket, one INSANE Canadian has bolted TWO of HXT motors on the back of his mountain bike--->

http://members.ii.net/~aussiejester/index/pictures/Liveforphysics_rc_drive_2.jpg

http://members.ii.net/~aussiejester/index/pictures/Liveforphysics_rc_drive_unit.jpg

This is currently the record holder for the 100meter run covers it ~6 seconds from a standing start, last i heard though Luke is having issues smoking ESC hes pulling HUGE amps and the ESC cant handle it the last post i read of his the two Turnegy speed controllers shot 8inch flames out and burnt his leg when he was doing 55mph up a hill...:-S

So theres your answer Rhett...reducing the rc outrunners HIGH rpm via a redcution drive unit OR a HUGE rear sprocket to get a ratio that is "usable" in an e-bike application ;-)

What do you see happening with Li-Po's regarding E-Bikes?--Take care-Rhett

I see more and more people looking at building high end e-bikes for off road using them as they learn about the chemistry and mere importantly the dangers involved...There are already a fair few using them now TBH...Lipos handled/managed correctly are very safe, over step these boundary's and you have a very hot fire on your hands, this putz ALOT of e-bikers off using them no doubt...i shall be using them myself on my next build, be ~ 8 22volt packs nice and light and no voltage sag when i screw the throttle around

Hope this helps you more understand how the rc motor is used successfully in ebikes anywayz Rhett I'm off to perch on my lounge in front of my 46in tv to watch X-Men Origins Wolverine WOOTz

KiM

 

[Rhett]

Thanks Aussie I have a much better idea of it now

Gearing of course it makes sense and I use it myself in electric RC applications. Yes I know first hand about the dangers of li-po's. Had to toss one( a 3 cell 4200 Ma) accidentally shorted during some soldering, it started to swell within a minute or two and thats when I tossed it into the back yard where it then caught fire, fizzeled, and then exploded! that was about 5 years ago in Germany, and from that time right up until we left a few months ago, not one blade of grass ever grew in that spot again. I know that great advances have been made with lithium poly batts in the RC industry that along with more advanced chargers and speed controls have increased the safety factor and I am sure that that this will or already has found its way into E-Bike technology. However, just like with RC, the cost must be a factor as well for this lithium technology in E bikes, even more so because every thing is on a larger scale for the most part. Thanks for the great info!!--Rhett

 

[gppeej]

Hey Rhett have you seen the French Matra MS1? It's a high end 1kW bike that has a heavy duty look, but is expensive.

You guys just did an excellent recap of the non-hub RC motor development. It's really cool stuff, and who knows how this will change the MB game.

Peej

 

[hawaiioutdoors]

Matt shumaker recumbent ELECTRIC

Matt shumaker recumbent
http://www.recumbents.com/WISIL/shumaker/edrive.htm

I think has the best electric drive kits, out there.

I bought one of his two-stage electric e-drive units. Can go up to 5,000 watts, or higher depending on electric motor. All the parts together, Lipo batteries, controller...ect...add up to a whole lot of dough....



I want to test it against the Tanaka 40cc. Yeti, I put together....


I do like the quiet that electric provides.

 

[AussieJester]

I reported few weeks back that Rhett had been involved in a very serious fall from his E-Bike unfortunately things have not improved for Rhett and he remains in a coma in ICU.
I receive regular updates via email from Rhetts wife Helen ...I would like to share this with the Motored Bike community to reinforce the necessity to WEAR A HELMET which unfortunately Rhett at the time of his fall wasn't doing.

Here's a small portion of the email regarding Rhetts current condition..

"Rhett remains in a deep coma with or with out sedation. He continues to have minimal reflexive responses to stimuli including withdrawing to induced pain, slight pupil dilation, and a blink reflex. He is unresponsive to voice command and any observed physical movement is not considered to be due to a conscious effort.

Rhett is still connected to a respirator and obtains nourishment through a feeding tube. The good news here is the brain swelling has subsided enough for them to remove the monitoring device from the top of his head and his blood pressure has improved. His other vital signs are consistently good including his heart rate and blood oxygen levels. His rate of breathing on his own has improved from 1 to 3 breaths a minute to 15 to 23 but they are shallow breaths and the machine compensates with 7 to 10 deep "sigh" breaths with 50 percent added oxygen (down from 70 to 100 percent oxygen)..Basically that means the machine is still breathing about half way for him. So far, he has managed to evade serious infection but it is still a viable threat to which they are ever watchful.

Although we wish to remain hopeful for Rhett's progress, his neurosurgeon has confirmed that the damage to his brain is very significant, especially to the frontal lobe. Unfortunately, this is the area of the brain that controls cognitive thinking, executive decisions, memory and mood. Which means if Rhett regains consciousness, then he may very well have considerable impairment to his cognitive skills and subsequently to his personality. However, it is impossible to determine the degree of impairment in his current state or at this time. So all we can do is wait and hope for change while seeking every qualified resource, diagnostic tool and opinion in this matter.
"

My thoughts, prays and best wishes go out to Rhett and Helen ...lets pray things turn for the better and Rhett will recover fully from this ....

KiM

 

[POPS]

2nd That thought...

Fight hard to get well...

Best of luck...POPS

 

[safe]

Wow, I don't usually read this thread, but was saddened by the fate of Rhett. There's something chilling about seeing his posting from not long ago and him being so cheerful and together and that followed by him being on life support.

At least his age was 55... so he had a pretty long life. (I'm 48 so I'm getting near that age and can identify with him)

Be "safe" out there on your ebikes. This stresses the need for protective gear. A helmet and (in my case) full leathers go a long way towards preventing this sort of thing.

None of us live forever, but we need to do all we can to keep what life we have going as long as possible.

--------------------------

Being an "older person" myself I can say that recovery time becomes longer and longer the older you get. Had this accident happend when he was 25 years old there's a decent chance of recovery. Judging by the sound of the diagnosis he's basically gone.

That's going to be very hard on the wife.

For Rhett he "felt" no pain.

--------------------------

My brother was in an auto accident a few years ago and when he was in his coma he said that he saw himself floating around the room and looking at himself. I guess depending on your religious beliefs Rhett is in some ways "free" from this world already. (something we all do one day)

Let's hope Rhett makes it to Valhalla (or something like it):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla

(he was injured while in "battle")

In Norse mythology, Valhalla (from Old Norse Valhöll "hall of the slain"[1]) is a majestic, enormous hall located in Asgard, ruled over by the god Odin. Chosen by Odin, half of those that die in combat travel to Valhalla upon death, led by valkyries, while the other half go to the goddess Freyja's field Fólkvangr. In Valhalla, the dead join the masses of those who have died in combat known as Einherjar, as well as various legendary Germanic heroes and kings, as they prepare to aid Odin during the events of Ragnarök.

Best wishes.

 

[fasteddy]

I have mentioned this before on various sights. I lived in upstate NH and in town was a hostel for people with brain injuries to try and get better.
I meet a fellow who was going to ride up to the store 3 blocks away in New York city and reach out to put his helmut on and then thought "I don't need it, it's not far".
Some one opened a car door and and as he dodged around it he lost control of his bike and his head hit the curb.
It took him 10 min. to tell me the story. How long did it take for you to read it.
He was 22 at the time I saw him.

Safe, that was my first thought. How chilling to read what he left us.
May he have Gods speed to get better.

Steve.

 

[safe]

It's a little like something I saw in a movie series about WWII. There is a series called "Band of Brothers" about these guys that went through a very long tour before finally getting to go home. They had endured D-day and by the end they had a very pragmatic way of looking at life which was that they were "already dead".

People always start off with these adrenaline sports with the idea of some kind of freedom and excitement. But at some point your point of view changes and you start to see the whole sport (and it's danger) as something that is very scary. It's then after this point (where you now fully realize how dangerous it is and want to do it anyway) that you really understand what you are into. (this is where you realize your addiction to it)

Most novices live in a sort of "comfortable denial" of the danger.

All types of bicycle riding, whether it's with an electric motor or not is dangerous. It's very likely that Rhett fell in a place that did not appear to be something that you should be careful about.

They call them "accidents" because they happen when you are NOT paying close attention.

The exception to this rule is when someone else (like in a car) is themselves distracted and they cause the accident. You can do your best to anticipate bad decisions by others, but cannot account for everything.

If absolute safety is your goal... never get on a bike of any type.

My attitude is to always assume the worst case scenario and constantly be thinking of dangers that might be lurking around the corner. And listen to your instincts too... many times I've had premonitions of events around the corner only to find out three seconds later that they were true. I can think of one case where I had a "feeling" that some deer would be on the other side of a ridge and they were. (a close miss) Another time I had the feeling there would be children in the middle of the road around a corner and there were. These danger sports seem to filter out the people who are not listening to their instincts. (in many ways)

Sometimes "instincts" can be "rationalized" away as just random luck... but there are other times when you really start to wonder just how you knew that. (it can lead to some deep philosophical thoughts about the nature of the universe and the consciousness after this life) It's just my belief that there is more to life than meets the eye and as I get older I am more accepting of death than when I was young.

Young people are in total denial of death and think they are immortal.

Middle age is a time where the fear sinks in.

As you become mentally "old" you start to accept death and don't care as much.

...for Rhett his death acceptance process was immediate. It's his wife and other family members that will suffer. Rhett (if he never regains consciousness) exited this life with no pain, no suffering, it's not a bad way to go really. My dad died of a long struggle with cancer decades ago... so I've seen the long and tortured death... it's not that great. The quick exit is okay.

But I still am determined to not be another statistic... be "safe" and wear all the protective gear you can... don't make the end come too easily. If you really fear death then stay home and do nothing. (like a prison of fear)