Born Again American (Not Religious)

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Zev0, Apr 30, 2009.

  1. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

  2. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Nicely done.
  3. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Pledge to stay informed and involved, sounds like a plan. I've always said that more Americans can name the cast of Sex and the City than their own Congressman. Amen.
  4. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    that was nice -- thank you -- going to share with friends

  5. bikebum1975

    bikebum1975 Member

    That was very nice indeed
  6. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Well-Known Member

    Hey, nice catchy tune,I liked it .....
    That is one smart money making site with the pricey T shirts, big
    donations, Itunes, etc
    they are making some good cha ching off that site :grin5:

    Born Again American (Not Religious)

    Not religious?
    Who are you kidding?

    The lyric is
    all those gospel choirs and Minister?

    the Bible has nothing to do with the Bill of Rights
    Most of the writers of the Bill of Rights were Deists

    In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of separation of church and state, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters, and the principle of religious freedom expressed in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson.

    Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence. Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist.
    These include James Madison, John Adams, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen [32] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout America and Europe). Elihu Palmer (1764-1806) wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York."

    Currently[update] there is an ongoing controversy in the United States over whether or not the country was founded as a "Christian nation" based on Judeo-Christian ideals.

    This has spawned a subsidiary controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[33] [34] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington.

    As to whether George Washington was a deist, see this Washington Post book review of two books on the subject. For Jefferson's deism, see the article Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist? by Gene Garman (2001).[35] For Franklin, see Kerry S. Walters, Benjamin Franklin and His Gods (University of Illinois Press, 1999) and also an excerpt from the article Benjamin Franklin: An American Life by Walter Isaacson.[36]

    However, Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.

    My arguments perverted some others, particularly Collins and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting Keith's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful."[37] [38]

    For his part, Thomas Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he more often referred to himself as a Unitarian.

    In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story.
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  7. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    Oh man Forbisher
    reading some of your **** early Sunday morning before going to church
    is enough to make one sick
    and you say that you are near the beach and are not a smog sniffer
    that's hard to believe
    you definitely carry that very well known hateful LA attitude of some up there towards GOD
    and Christ followers

    ride that THING sucking in the smoke of LA
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  8. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    MM, exactly what in his post was hateful toward "God and Christ followers"?

    I wish you'd explain rationally and plainly exactly how, by posting a copy/paste screed, or in his own commentary, he has expressed such.

    As it happens, I looked at that presentation in the OP video, and my immediate reaction was - very professionally done propaganda. So, I looked at the info I could find in a very brief search about the organization which posted it, and then I looked at the primary supporting organization behind them. The board of advisors of that organization contains some interesting names - names not usually associated with christianity, christian principles, or patriotism. Names like David Carradine, who wrote the song, or Norman Lear, who organized the financing and the production of the video.

    I've little doubt that the majority of the performers were sincere, and saw this as an opportunity to showcase their beliefs and their talents. I also have little doubt that the purpose of the video was to support and to generate funds for a very politicized agenda - an agenda focused upon making Christianity the de-facto "official" religion of this nation.

    Religion and politics make bad bed-fellows in the long term, because nearly inevitably they produce b@st@rd children of intolerance, bigotry, hate speech and hate crimes, and so on.

    I admire you for your faith, and have no doubt that it is a great comfort to you. Failure to share that faith, and exposition of a differing viewpoint that does not denigrate that faith, is hardly being "hateful". I am sorry to say this, but in this current exchange, the anger and the hatefulness coming through most clearly is your own.
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  9. stude13

    stude13 Active Member

    one mo time-this land is your land, this land is my land--happy muthas day--i love the way you put it down simon. the way i see it these guys have nothing but faith, anything that differs throws the world atilt and it is very difficult to stand. like the pregnant turtle recently unearthed. it is dated a around 57,000,000 yrs old, yikes that doesent fit. there goes the world atilting again. that might explain the dizzyness.
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  10. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    I think those frogs people are shaking up and licking (as seen on CNN) are mirgrating up North from you MM. This would explain the irrational behavior of Forbisher and Stude.
  11. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    no need to over work the moderators

    I kind of wish that I would not have put my two cents in there
    but I did what I did
    and trying to be faitful to myself and not to mention the other Almighty one above
    I did not wish to go back and do some editing of this said post
    thinking that these LITTLE flar-ups do no good regarding the spreading of the word
    because in a certain book it does say not to argue
    so it may be a little too late but I am stepping out of here for now

    not wishing to have the moderators chew me out yet one more time

    one day at a time I will try to be good
    but being good just does not seem to be in me
    as it is in those other guys
    I just speaking for myself need help from a power much mightier than my own

    have a great days as you ride those MB things ---- from - MM
  12. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    Freedom of religion is mentioned numerous times in the Bill of Rights. I don't think America was Muzzl'em back then??? Many came to America to get away from persicution, due to their religious beliefs.

    America was and still is overwhelmingly Christian. I respect your opinions and other religions.

    Why is it Liberal's are all about Freedom of speech and running their yaps until it comes to the other side voicing their opinion! Think about what I just said before you respond! As our forefather's were free to come here, you are free to leave if you don't like it here. Don't like guns, don't like marrige bans, don't think the Social service system is fair, don't want to deport illegal aliens.

    We have laws and a way of life that has been established through time in this Country. If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you (where I feel), the good Lord split you!
    See what you get elswhere.

    Spend as much thought on your work as you do crying and this Country would be a better place. Just my opinion.
  13. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    In fact, "freedon of religion" is mentioned not at all in the bill of rights. What is stated is thi:
    * emphasis added

    As for the rest of your comments, mort, they amount to: "America - Love It or Leave It!"

    To which I say you are wrong to even suggest that. America was also founded on freedom of speech - in fact that same Amendment explicitly enumerates the freedom. Which includes the right to speak in a fashion you may find reprehensible. To suggest that those whose enunciated vision for our socity diagrees with yours ought to leave, is the most heimous violation of our founding principals you can espouse. You should be utterly ashamed of saying such.
  14. kerf

    kerf Guest


    When you read Mort's post, the frustration is evident. The division in this country is reaching a level I haven't seen in my lifetime. Even back to the height of the Civil Rights Struggle or the Vietnam War issues, things weren't this bad. Religion, Federal size / power, capitalism, socialism, health care, environmental issues, etc. Where do you see this going?
  15. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    There are a variety of ways it can go, most not very pleasant to contemplate.

    The federal government is not going to surrender its arrogated powers to their proper weilders, the states, without a massive social revolution. That revolution can come in a variety of forms, but in the end force of arms trumps force of right, unless the two are on the same side.

    "Why doth treason never prosper? An it prosper, none dare call it treason."

    The original revolutionaries that founded this country were, to a man, traitors - to the Crown. The founders of the Texas Republic were traitors - to the Mexican government. I'll likely not live to see it, but the day is coming when the United States as one unitary nation will no longer exist, probably within the next 40 years or so.

    What I foresee (and dearly wish I did not) is a fragmentation along regional lines exacerbated by regional issues rising to the point of secession. Which will bring war, and anyone foolish enough to think that US soldiers will not fire upon fellow Americans is a fool. History demonstrates very clearly that they will. What will touch it off is impossible to predict, but the atmosphere of diviseness and single-issue identification so avidly promoted by our politicians in a grossly self-serving way will make it happen eventually.

    Probably, in the end, 5 to 9 independent countries where once there was one.
  16. kerf

    kerf Guest

    The only way to avoid the unthinkable is to take control of the tax code, cut off the money and starve the bureaucracy to death. The issues will remain but can be resolved within the states, as those citizens see fit. We, as a people, must act while "vote" still has relevance, going to be tough as the bureaucracy has control of the media. That has become the American version of Pravda.
  17. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    Exactly what I've been saying Kerf, the time is short!

    SS, your reply to my post was well thought and put at such spur of the moment. Well you certainly have the general guist of what I'm saying, you might agree with me a little more if I explain further when I get a chance...?

    "rising to the point of secession. Which will bring war, and anyone foolish enough to think that US soldiers will not fire upon fellow Americans is a fool."

    I don't disagree with 1% of what you just said SS and would further pool our money together in purpose of betting, but think it to be illegal.?. Would that be like short selling the US (the way our poloticians are)(Wall Street terminology)?

    Ok SS, there's a difference between free speech and whats going on today. By the way, I know Kerf is a fellow Conservative and I learned a new appreciation for his ability to be neutral and listen!

    How can I say, It's one thing to fight when you feel your rights (something previously enjoyed) have been violated and it's another to fight for rights you have not yet won.

    Just because you play blindfolded but darts with your good buddy (in privacy of your own home), does not mean you should be allowed to do it on a street corner and further shun me from saying I believe in God beause it's written those who do are against this activity.!

    While the but dart league enjoys their newly legal sport, there should be no reason found to take my traditional sport away (target shooting). Meanwhile AIDS is a major health risk and the drain these new marriges are adding is going to add ten fold to my Healthcare.

    Ths new Liberal agenda is underminning the sovergnity and safety of America.

    MB's have been excepted long before butt darts... The butt dart league won't know when to quit pushing and want to take away MB's after guns are gone because of unnecessary deaths and healthcare costs. Meanwhile, watch what aids will cost us.

    The time is not right now for these arguments in America. They are costing us big money and causing division. The dart leagues should stay in the closet until things get better
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  18. sparky

    sparky Active Member

    ... a fragmentation brought about by our elected, yet uncontrollable politicians. The Civil War was brought about by then elected, yet uncontrollable politicians who wanted to control [or at least have a greater say in] the means of production.

    Our FUBU government should enable 33% power of the Congress to be given to all individuals that care to have some say.
  19. sparky

    sparky Active Member

  20. kerf

    kerf Guest

    I don't see the divisions so much as regional as ideological. The central issue, IMO, being the role and scope of centralized authority. Those of us that believe in the founding principals of limited Federal authority and those that see vast expansion of that authority as the future. This debate crosses state and regional boundary's, although regional differences can be found in the number of individuals in a certain area that hold to a specific belief. I see this as far more complicated that the issues of the mid 1800's.