Brazing steel with mapp?

Discussion in 'Painting, Welding, Bending and Gas Tanks' started by keatonx, May 27, 2011.

  1. keatonx

    keatonx Member

    Hi. I just bought a bernzomatic propylene torch at princess auto for 50 bucks. I was nearly certain it would be able to braze, but it didn't. The bronze rods turned black and didn't melt too well, even though the metal I was brazing was tiny and glowing bright red. After a VERY long time, I got it to somewhat braze, but it was tiny and dirty. And the flux on the rod was bubbling and burning. Is it possible to braze steel with this torch? Princess auto says that "your purchase isn't final until your satisfied". Should I take this torch back, and get the oxy/mapp torch that I was debating about getting? It's only 35 bucks more, and it comes with everything you need, unlike this torch.
     

  2. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    bernzomatic propylene is used primarily with solder. I use propane and oxygen, to braise. Maybe the map gas might do. Buy the smallest braising rod you can find, I know NAPA has some small rods. With MAP gas you will need a braising tip. I have a large bottle of O2 and a 5 gal propane set up. Also have one of these.
    http://www.torchbrazing.com/torch-brazing/buy-a-brazing-torch-for-sale.htm
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  3. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    There is one propane/mapp torch that'll work.

    I've had a Wingaersheek spitfire torch since the early '80s. It has a long combustion tube; the air has a long time to swirl/mix with the gas, and you have to adjust it so that the bulk of the combustion occurs outside the tube, else it'll be glowing cherry red. It'll put out enough heat to braze smaller parts - pipe up to 1 inch or so, for instance.

    Unfortunately, I don't think that Wingaersheek has sold the spitfire for years. I've seen a bernzomatic mapp torch with "swirl technology" that's used for silver-soldering. I don't know if you can use it for brazing also.

    As late as 2000, Wingaersheek still sold their "Crossfire" line of plumbing torches to the trades, which also used the same swirl technology, and which will braze (depending on the model) fairly large pieces/pipe. You may still be able to find them used. The 1000 series (I believe) had a very small flame, though - 1/4 inch diameter. It was used for silver-soldering AC/refrigerant tubing. The other model series (2000, 3000, 4000 series) are progressively bigger.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  4. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    BTW - this torch, this one and this one look as if they should be able to braze, as the air inlet is 5-6 inches from the end of the torch, implying the thorough mixing action of the spitfire style torch. (the second one states that it IS a swirling combustion chamber, and both the second and third one say they can be used for brazing...) I don't know their total heat output, so the object size may be limited...
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  5. keatonx

    keatonx Member

  6. keatonx

    keatonx Member

    I also heard that these oxy/mapp torches use oxygen really fast
     
  7. bmc_az

    bmc_az New Member

    they do use ox very fast and its very expensive consider the "real" torch kit that HF has on sale for $110 you have to get tanks but its a lot cheaper in the long run and you can do much more with it.
    bmc_az
     
  8. keatonx

    keatonx Member

    So i went to princess auto and spent the extra 28 bucks on the oxy mapp; Then noticed i forgot my 6 dollar welding goggles!
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011
  9. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    However, keep in mind that it's possible that gas supplier won't refill tanks that they don't provide...
     
  10. keatonx

    keatonx Member

    Today I was trying to braze some steel from a weed eater clutch with the oxy-mapp torch. I adjusted the torch so the inner green flame (the only one i could see) was about a centimetre (2.5 centimetres=1 inch) long. Over what felt like my whole oxy tank (really only 8 mins, heard too many horror stories of oxy tanks lasting 5 mins), I couldn't get the metal to glow. However, I did get it to braze a bit. Any tips on getting this thing to heat metal cherry red? After all it's supposed to be able to cut through 1/2 steel bolts!

    P.S. everyone says the oxy valve is very touchy and diffucult. It's actually super easy!
     
  11. machiasmort

    machiasmort Active Member

    I tried oxy/mapp for 1/4" plate. Didn't work well at all!
     
  12. rogernelson

    rogernelson New Member

  13. oldguy387

    oldguy387 Member

    My suggestion is to get a real set up - oxy/acetylene or a mig welder with gas hookup. Stop playing games with a soldering set up.
     
  14. keatonx

    keatonx Member

    So I tried the oxy mapp torch again and it turns out I skipped a step in the instructions. I was brazing with the STARTING flame.:jester: Once i did it properly it brazed amazingly. It was easily brazing steel bikeframes with only seconds of pre-heating. I could FEEL the intense heat through my leather gloves! I was using the "50 percent more oxygen" tank and it lasted me a good 15 minutes of running time. Pretty good.

    The reason I didn't look into oxy-acetylene or a proper welder is because i'm thirteen years old. My parents think I have too much junk. That's why this torch is perfect for me. Small, and easy to use. I highly recomend this torch if you are in a simmilar situation.
     
  15. Chris Crew

    Chris Crew Member

    "The reason I didn't look into oxy-acetylene or a proper welder is because i'm thirteen years old."

    Nice.

    Sounds like you're on your way, buddy. Most 13 year olds I know only know how to work a cell phone, tv remote and X box.

    Keep expanding your skillset, your mind and your world view. Us old farts are gonna need smart young folk like you to keep us in shape and keep our sociable security checks coming in on time.
     
  16. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    I'll up on this. I DON'T know of ANY 13 yo that will take on tools. Yes...texting, TV remote, Play Station, along with that Facebook junk, or the like. I'm a ole fogy I don't text or receive them, and if you want to talk to me I have a phone number. Congratulations.
     
  17. NewOrleansFlyer

    NewOrleansFlyer New Member

    13!!!!!!!!!!!!! No matter what anyone says...you're the coolest kid we know!! Great effort..stay with it...oh and video games, computers, MP3 players, cel phones are OK too!
     
  18. rohmell

    rohmell New Member

  19. keatonx

    keatonx Member

  20. Good grief...classic internet mis-information!

    Brazing happens @ 900 degrees...you can braze thin stuff; 18 Gauge and under with a propane torch.

    Don't buy the "hobby" high temp kits...if you want to go to the next level...get an oxy/acetylene outfit.

    Jim
     
Loading...