Broken spokes. Need help with a good Wheel/Rims

Discussion in 'For Sale' started by asfazrq, Aug 7, 2010.

  1. asfazrq

    asfazrq Member

    Hi good day. I broken 11 spokes the other day and cost me $35 with labor to get the wheel repair. I don't mind spending a reasonable amount of money to get a heavy duty wheel with heavy duty spokes. I have a 26" mountain bike. Looking for something without fancy mods e.g. I am not able to cut the rear sprocket down. I don't mind paying a reasonable amount but don't want to go put ridiculous amount of time to do modifications. I live in canada so shipping to this lovely contry is pretty expensive.

    Any recommendations for good wheels? I don't know where to get heavy duty stuff.
     

  2. spad4me

    spad4me Member

    Gebe,
    Staton,
    Wheelmaster or Wheelman
    Are all good.

    My local surviving bike shop sells recycled **** called XRIMS laced by a 10 yr old kid after school. For $40.00 a pop.
    You buy this **** once and never return.
    Pre warped and bent straight , Until you ride it.
    LOL
     
  3. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member

    asfazrq,

    I too need a rear wheel heavy duty.

    Spad4me gave you some great choices.

    What specs do you need? coaster brake? set up for a multi gear? with a disc brake?
    What is your budget if I may ask? cost plus shipping?

    (Ive saved a bunch of wheel set links to my favorites list.)

    I'll copy/paste what you need when u tell me.

    Good Luck! :)
     
  4. asfazrq

    asfazrq Member

    occchopperfl and spad4me thanks to both of you.

    I don't know a lot about bike lingo. I have a mountain bike with 26" 7-rear casette. the tire size reads 26 x 1.95. I have standard V-brakes with standard calipers (it's a really cheap bike - costs like $100, which is why all the problems)

    budget is flexible and I don't mind paying shipping. I am located in Canada.

    I need something without headaches - top of the line and maintenance free as I don't ideally want to fiddle with spoke tension and adjusting spokes. I got friggin 11 spokes two weeks ago and now two spokes are broken again. I guess it's true that once the spokes are broken, it's time to replace the entire wheel. the guy who repaired them was probably a jack***.

    Again, really appreciate your help occchopperfl
     
  5. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member

    Hi Asfazrq,

    Do you have a range of a budget? $$$? This is important, so we dont spin our wheels figuring stuff out to buy that you cant/ wont buy.

    Here is a good start for you:
    http://staton-inc.com/store/index.p...logSetSortBy=price_desc&CatalogSetView=Thumb2

    Your best bet is to talk to Mr. David Staton himself. Based on my personal experience, hes to the point and busy. Know what you're looking for and be ready to cut to the chase if it all makes sense. Make a few calls, and call him last. Hes been around for a looong time, with comments like "BULLETPROOF" in regards to his products.

    What kind of engine kit do you have?
    - If you have a friction drive, youll just need the wheelset
    - If you have a frame/ rack/ or axle mount, youll need a sprocket adapter and sprocket.

    My dream wheel set:
    - double wall alloy rim 34.00
    - heavy duty 12 gage spokes 14.00
    - h d axle/complete hub set ???
    - 7 sprocket carousel ???
    - heavy duty rim liner 7.00
    - heavy duty inner tube 10.00
    - heavy duty tire 41.00
    - wheel set professionally laced up by vendor 35.00
    (here is an example of a tire)
    http://www.safetycycle.com/specialized-crossroads-26-armadillo-tire.html

    I never put pen to paper on costs, but I have to believe that its going to run roughly $150.00 - $250.00 for everything.

    lets see for fun: (dollar amounts added to top after the fact) $141.00 plus shipping, plus axle, plus carousel

    This is one of the best values for a heavy duty single speed - coaster brake bike:
    http://www.piratecycles1.com/woclwhshcbw1.html
    (not a double wall alloy rim, but 10.5 gage spokes and HD nonethless - a WORKSMAN!)

    Good Luck! :)
     
  6. asfazrq

    asfazrq Member

    Hi occchopperfl, I am looking to stay under $150. the biggest thing I am looking for is complete maintenance free. really with 2 kids and 3rd on the way, I cannot afford time to monkey around with the bike. not a bachelor anymore :) so I have a frame mounted 80cc chinese engines kits. the the rear sprocket is a 36T connected to the rear hub attached to spoke with that stupid rag joint and metal plates.

    is there any easy way to get away from that, using or adapter or something. what would you recommend. I am going to try to post pictures of the configuration when I have a camera, but you probably have a good idea of what I have (and what I am going through).

    i am not sure what a coaster brake bike is. i have a 7 speed rear-casette. personally I don't give me a **** about 7-speed or 100-speed. I am not interested in the bike features at all. all I need is a solid wheel, be a single speed. That WORKSMAn wheel looks good, but I Am not sure if it will fit. what do you think? or do you want me to post pictures of my bike.

    man if you are ever in toronto, pm me and I'll take you out for lunch :)
     
  7. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member

    LOL! Lunch :)
    Thank you - sounds good. I have cousins there. Not sure exactly where, but there.
    Maybe if I go up there for a family function, not likely. :)

    a. Coaster brake is on a single speed hub where you pedal backwards to apply the brake.

    b. Here is the adapter/ sprocket for SINGLE hubs i believe (50.00 for both)
    The issue lately has been availability/production delays. (Veeery good product from the reviews here.)
    http://www.piratecycles1.com/spadandspcb.html

    c. This is another sprocket adapter that I just learned of here in the forum 65.00:
    (not sure about recommendation as I just found out about this product)
    http://livefastmotors.com/Gas-Powered-Bicycle-Motor-Clamshell-Sprocket-Adapter-Large.html

    d. STATON (Vendor)
    http://www.staton-inc.com/About.asp?ContentID=1
    He could probably sell you wheel set sprocket and adapter assembled!
    (I cant break it down for you, my browser or the website has some issues where I cant see all websites info.)
    This would probably be the best bet.

    Asfazrq - This hobby i've come to learn in the few short months being a newbie myself, is that this is a hobby where you monkey around. (Its supposed to be part of the fun.) I'm not a mechanic, so for me it wasnt so much fun monkeying around.

    - If you dont want to tinker, buy one of Statons engine/drive kits.
    Reviews say - "BULLETPROOF".

    Chat up at the vendors to see what would work with your bike.

    (yes please post pic, and what make and model is it?)

    :)
     
  8. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    Engine?

    The 7-speed gears are a godsend, especially on hills and ramps. With single-speed, I am unable to ride up the parking ramp at work. With multispeed, I am.

    The Wheelmaster builds bulletproof wheels, with spokes as large as 9-gauge. Use your stock front wheel. Then When you have time, replace each spoke yourself with stainless 14-gauge. They're cheap, strong and you'll have a sense of pride when you've done it yourself.

    You could do this, or buy a special hub adaptor to replace the spoke-breaking rag joint.

    Orrrrr, you could buy and install the SBP shift kit, and eliminate your spoke problems. My friend Hawaii Ed uses this and runs stock-size spokes.

    Granted, it WILL take some time to get everything just right. Besides not having to worry about spokes, your bike will run faster and your engine will keep within its power range, instead of screaming high heaven.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2010
  9. asfazrq

    asfazrq Member

    after much deliberation, I have decided to go with the wheel master. yes he's charge quite a bit then it's a life time warranty that no one else offers, to my knowledge. the sbp shift kit is a lot of work. someday if I have lots of time, I will definately go with it. other than that, thanks a lot guys for your help.
     
  10. Chalo

    Chalo Member

    Years ago, one of my bike clubmates in Seattle bought a set of wheels from the Wheelmaster-- with deep rims, 9ga rear spokes and 10ga front spokes. They were the least reliable wheels I have ever seen. My friend had to tighten the spokes up after every couple of rides. If he'd only gotten the same rims carefully handbuilt with 14ga stainless spokes, he'd probably have had no reason to mess with them at all.

    There is a reason that 14ga spokes are customary-- that is the thickest size that has enough elastic stretch to take up the typical movement in normal bicycle rims. Thinner spokes are even better at supporting the rim without going slack, but they can be harder to build with and are easier to damage. I doubt that 15ga or thinner spokes would tolerate having a sprocket clamped to them.

    Chalo
     
  11. Chalo

    Chalo Member

    "X RIMS" are single-walled Alex rims. They are pretty much the best single-walled rims out there in my experience, but they are inexpensive. Because they are good but inexpensive, manufacturers use them to build cheap wheels that are often poorly assembled. Often VERY poorly assembled. Thus Alex rims have acquired an undeserved reputation for being lousy, when they are not.

    In any case, a single-walled rim is not appropriate for a motorized bike when there is a sturdy double-walled rim available. A motor's weight, vibration, and speed are hard on a bicycle, and an MB rider should be using the strongest parts he can afford, not the cheapest ones he can find.

    A $40 wheel is a very cheap item that many shops won't take the time to condition properly. I always do, but it is not a money making proposition. That wheel probably costs $20 wholesale. If a shop gives it the equivalent of a $20 repair before selling it to you, then it's like they charged you for the repair but gave you the wheel at cost.

    There is no rim so good that a terrible quality build can't make it into a weak and unreliable wheel. Rims and spokes are secondary in importance to the thoroughness and consistency of the build.

    Chalo
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
  12. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    Very well said, Chalo!:bowdown:

    Welcome to the club.
     
  13. spad4me

    spad4me Member

    These rims actually say recycled on them.
    These people are the only game in town except wallmart.
    I freely admit I made a mistake buying one.
    I made a bigger mistake by recommending them to my fellow riders.
    A BMX speciality shop LOL sells this stuff.
    You do get what you pay for.

    Ps I am now totally confused. I thought these were Double wall rims this is what they look like .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bicycle_rim_diagrams_03_.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
  14. asfazrq

    asfazrq Member

    that's really odd Chalo. I have heard nothing but good things about the wheel master. I guess I'll have to see if for myself. I've lost faith in regular bicycle spokes, stainless or not as the spokes are not designed to take the kind of pressure the sprocket and the rag joints put on them. sooner or later the higher quality stainless steel spokes will likely fail. yes it's more expensive to go to the wheelmaster but I hope never to see these problems again. as per retighting the spokes every time, one could put in locktite compound on the spokes to hopefully get rid of the issue.
     
  15. Chalo

    Chalo Member

    I am certain that Wheel Master's wheels are at least as skilfully built as the better examples in the bike industry, but the plain fact is that fat spokes only work right with big heavy rims and very high spoke tensions. Bicycle rims can't withstand the compression that fat spokes would put on them when the spokes are in their correct tension range.

    I think you may well be right. I have limited experience with rag jointed sprockets and their long term implications. Spokes are designed to be used purely in tension between one end and the other. Anything transmitting force to the middle of the spoke, be it a rag joint, a GEBE sprocket ring, a smaller rim used as a v-belt pulley (or whatever), places a bending load on the spoke at the attachment point. And while normally laced spokes don't see significant increases in tension from ordinary riding, bending tensioned spokes at mid-span does raise their tension quite a bit-- it is one of the traditional stress relieving methods used by wheelbuilders.

    Best practice is to drive the hub, or even the rim, but don't apply force to the middles of the spokes. This is a clear advantage of friction roller drives, shift kits, Manic Mechanic sprockets, disc brake interface "sprotors", etc.: They let the wire wheel function as designed.

    Chalo
     
  16. Chalo

    Chalo Member

    This a a double-walled rim made by Alex, the DM24. It is an excellent choice for a motorized bike, cargo bike, pedicab, or any other pedal bike that needs very strong wheels. It's also among the least expensive of double-walled rims at $20-$25 online retail:
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Chalo, I'm sorry, but your friend did not have a set of my wheels, I've never had a wheelset fail EVER, never had any come back, and if he had actually bought them from me he would have known that I back up my work 100%.. I can't imagine anybody paying what I charge for wheels, and then not telling me about any problems encountered, sounds a bit fishy to me......
     
  18. Chalo

    Chalo Member

    I'll try to fill in some of your blanks, so you can assess the veracity for yourself.

    This was in probably 2003 or 2004; my buddy and I lived in Seattle then. The wheels were mountain bike wheels, with red powdercoated deep rims on disc hubs. I was not familiar at that time with the rim brand, so it was surely not Velocity. They might have been Vuelta. The rims were superficially like the Velocity Deep-V ATB that had been available up to then. I don't remember what color the hubs were, but the spokes were silver. My buddy (I'll call him T.O., which are his actual initials) mounted the wheels on a dual suspension mountain bike which he rode mostly on the street.

    The rims had been drilled out to receive the larger 9ga and 10ga nipples, and lacing tension had slightly puckered the holes.

    When I saw his super-strong new wheels, I reckoned they might loosen when ridden. The puckering around the spoke holes was a strong clue that the spokes needed more tension than the rim could physically provide.

    T.O. was generally happy with his wheels, but they did loosen continuously, and he had to tighten them back up more and more frequently. They didn't ever fail structurally- there was no noteworthy bending, flat-spotting, or collapse- and it seemed the only reason they went out of true was from spoke loosening. I don't remember T.O. ever being as unhappy with his wheels as I would have been, and I think he stopped using them only because he didn't want to spend the time to keep them tight anymore.

    To me, such a gross mismatch of spoke gauge to rim weight constitutes a failure of design, not procedural skill in wheelbuilding. It betrays a poor understanding of the physical principles at work in a wire-spoked wheel. The most skillful and consistent wheelbuilding can't make up for such an elementary mistake.

    I encourage anyone who is interested to read up on "tensegrity" structures, because a wire wheel is basically one of those:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensegrity

    In tensegrity terms, the rim is a circular "strut" and the spokes are "tendons". If the spokes are too thick and inelastic to react to forces applied to the wheel, then they can lose all tension under load and the wheel becomes unstable.

    Chalo
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  19. Whizzerd

    Whizzerd Member

    This is the kind of discussion I love here on the Groups. I recall that Chalo is a bonifide bike Mech.. That said, "asfazrq", I have a new Worksman bike w/ the Worksman wheels, HD tires and tubes with a BMP/Titan 50 setup. The wheels are phenomenal!
     
  20. Take all that flexing, and stretching, and apply it to a Clamshell Sprocket design "Which I think is rediculouse, but is what Asfaz Has", your stretchy wheel will fail quickly, Thick spokes simply hold up better when a motor is applied, look around this forum, read the reviews.
    I would gladly put one of my wheels in a brutality test against any other wheel available, mag or otherwise, lets put our money where our mouth is like on PINKS, Make it a fair test, and I'll send a Superwheel , we will find out what holds up under the Pummelling... All in good fun, I respect your opinions, while at the same time offering a challenge....:helmet:
     
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