Buyers Beware

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by greguk, Oct 15, 2007.

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  1. greguk

    greguk Member

    Buyers Beware [THATSDAX.COM] BAD ENGINE

    DEAR COLLEGES PLEASE CONSIDER IN FUTURE BUYING FROM THATSDAX.COM. I BOUGHT FROM THIS SELLER I DON'T HAVE ANY SUPPORT NOW. IT'S SELLER FAULT, SHE/HE SOLD ME BAD ENGINE WHICH HAD PROBLEM WITH broken screw-thread in body engine (lucky repaired) http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=6479

    NOW IT HAS MORE SERIOUS DAMAGE CAUSED BY LOW QUALITY BROKEN PISTON.

    I WROTE TO SELLER VERY LONG LETTER TO EXPLAIN SITUATION. I EXPECT SHE/SHE WILL UNDERSTAND BUT LOOKS LIKE SHE/HE ONLY SELL THEM AND DON'T CARE ABOUT CUSTOMERS. I SPENT $330 FOR ALL AND USE IT FOR 4 MONTHS (IN FIRST 3 MONTHS I USED IT FOR 2-5 MILES TRIPS DAILY; IN LAST MONTH I 14 MILES DAILY). THIS IS NOT VERY MUCH. i FEEL DISAPPOINTED AND CHEATED. LOOKS LIKE SELLER SHIP OVERSEAS LOW GRADE PRODUCTS BECAUSE HE/SHE NOT HONOUR WARRANTIES AT ALL.

    I RECEIVED ANSWER FROM SELLER:

    Greg. We offer no warranty for sales outside the USA. You can go to the website and find the parts you need to get your motor going again. After break in. Go to a synthetic 2 stroke oil . Thanks.

    WHAT MEAN THIS ANSWER? THIS PERSON WROTE TO ME 40 WORDS WITHOUT WORD 'SORRY'. I THINK THIS IS THE MOST CYNICAL ANSWER I EVER READ (SHE/HE FORGOT TO AD 'ENJOY THE RIDE' - UNFORTUNATELY HERE IS NOTHING TO ENJOY NOW). LOOKS LIKE SELLER AGREE IN OPINION THAT ENGINES ARE LOW QUALITY - SILENT MEAN YES. IF SOMEBODY SELL OUTSIDE USA AND NOT HONOUR WARRANTY IT IS MEAN HE/SHE SELL AND SEND RUBBISH.
    PART 'You can go to the website and find the parts you need to get your motor going again.' JUST SHOOT ME. HE/SHE WANTS MORE MONEY FROM ME. I SPENT ALREADY $200 FOR KIT I EXPECT QUALITY AND RELIABILITY. SELLER DOESN'T HAVE TO LIKE ME, HE/SHE HAVE TO SELL GOOD PRODUCT.

    PLEASE HELP - SELLER CAN'T HELP ME BECAUSE HE/SHE DON'T CARE ABOUT OWN PRODUCT.

    To: Duane

    Dear Sir/Madam,

    My name is Gregory and I bought engine from You at 07-Jun-07 22:00:37 (330126395499). I was happy user until yesterday. Since June, I didn't have serious problems with it. It was very useful engine with small 2-stroke issues. To be honest, I replace some of parts include: kill button, clutch lever, fuel pipe, spark plug, spark plug wire, intake gasket, nuts on steel A2, threaded rods on steel A2 as well. I was mainly happy from its work culture (I had to start it use little high revs; otherwise after 10 min I could use it more sensitive and delicate). I had been able to kill engine with choke, so I didn't have air leak.
    I had problem with it which "look" serious but it's wasn't. You can/could read about it at motorized bicycle forum. I repaired it with success by Recoil® Kit. I didn't have problem with engine until today.

    http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=6479

    Like I wrote above I was happy user. Yesterday I try to ride and I had problem to start it. I didn't have problems day before. At last month I started to work for RWE NPOWER which is 7,5 mile far from me. I used bike only to ride to work and back, 5 days a week. I didn't had problems at all with it (I changed spark plug for original 2 weeks ago and it's surprised me - engine gets some extra power).
    Like I wrote already, I tried to ride on Saturday without success. Engine was dead already. I suppose piston moved in cylinder. I rode a little and I hear little "aluminium" "crack" and I had to come back home. I removed upper nuts from cylinder head; I didn't find anything broken for first look. In closer look I found missing chip off piece of piston. I'm sure piston wasn't sealed with cylinder, rather locked by piece of piston. I removed it with little resistance but without tools. Piston is broken on left side, it's look like "rock hit by hammer" It's 1 mm deep crater with smashed left side (with blocked 1 ring on this side). Cylinder looks untouched. Parts of cylinder lock wheels under as well. After that piston rod broke copper bushing under piston. I think some metal base parts changed places (I found some bigger metal parts).
    I have to confess I'm not qualified mechanic. I have some experience since I had few months this engine, I study diagrams of it and I know how it works, that's all.

    To being honest I don't understand situation, I don't understand why it is broken. I can't find my fault at all. Main fault of this engine is obvious - material from which is engine made is weak. I understand this situation might be able to happen after 1500 - 2000 miles but not after light use in 3 months and 1 month regular use 16 miles daily.

    Dear Sir, I remember you have "30 day love it or get your money back Guarantee". I wouldn't like to disappoint you but 30 days are relatively short time to test these engines. I think most breakages happened after between 4-8 months when your customer's habit to ride and pistons of Yours engines are used and might be damaged as well with screw-thread in body engine. In mine opinion both situations are connected each other. I don't want to disappoint you once again but I think you sold me low quality product. From the start cylinder head wasn't proper connected to cylinder body. Cylinder didn't knock. Two last weeks rode very good and smoked from first move. Nothing prognoses this catastrophe. Actually I feel disappointed and little depressed because this situation waste my time spend on this project with spent Ł160 ($320) as well. I just to like my hobby - believe me or not I didn't spent time to tight nuts (except intake, outtake and head cylinder sometimes). This is sad that you sell products with unknown quality. I used 2-stroke oil in ratio 20-25:1, temperature is quite cold outside, so here is not problem with cooling.
    There is one thing which is interesting in broken piston. It doesn't have chrome on its surface at all. On your website pictures, Sir, pistons looks shiny but on my pictures they are rather mat. Actually when I touch I feel raw aluminum surface and its typical kettle aluminum - fragile and grey color. Maybe that's why part of aluminum chip broke engine. I think it's understandable - It shouldn't be installed in place where exist detonation. For a proof cylinder is still shine inside.

    Unfortunately I disagree with you about warranty. I think your 30 day love it or get your money back Guarantee is something which exist in big corporation networks. This is 30 days to test product more visual and test drive and it is impossible to find material breakage. Engine which will be broken after month shouldn't be sold as well like engine which parts are used after 2, 5 and even 9 months. I didn't have ability to use your product for 30 miles daily from start and replace it in Guarantee time. I mount engine proper. I think mechanical Guarantee is one year like any other new product around the world.

    I would like to thank you to have a possibility to use your product. Unfortunately engine which you sent me had fault. This fault was caused by bad quality piston. My engine is broken now. Please help me with replace/money back under warranty.

    With regards,

    Gregory S.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2015

  2. greguk

    greguk Member

    Rest Of Pictures
     

    Attached Files:

  3. ironwarlock

    ironwarlock Guest

    Sorry to hear about your bad luck with the motor. The motor is made of cheep metal. But most of those motors run good for a lot of miles. It looks like something got in or broke in the head and the piston came up and hit it.
     
  4. greguk

    greguk Member

    Yes, I understand - cheap metal. And please Sir, name thing proper - not bad luck - sellers ignorance. Nothing could come in because KIT have 2 fuel filters and and foam air filter.

    Please others with similar problems to sign up to topic - we have to fight with ignorance.
     
  5. ironwarlock

    ironwarlock Guest

    They give a 30 day Guarantee on that Chinese motor cause it is made of cheep metal. I have a Japanese motor (better metal) and I have a 1 year Guarantee cause they know its gonna take a pounding and keep on running. It's not seller ignorance. That 30 day limit is to protect the seller The motor is what it is. But I do feel your lost. I have been there done that.
     
  6. greguk

    greguk Member

    Looks like I didn't even get 30 days.

    I offer no Guarantee on Sales outside the USA lower 48 States

    Did seller wrote here that his product is made from cheap metal? NO

    And who received my payment $200? SELLER

    Who should suport buyers? SELLER

    'Here we have a Bicycle Engine kit installed in a bicycle. Comes with a 30 day love it or get your money back Guarantee !!! What I am selling is the engine kit only.The bike does not come with this engine kit..The pic is only to show you how the engine kit looks installed. This engine kit is fantastic!! Hit the kill switch anytime you like and then it is bicycle again....That is one of the beauties of a motor assisted bicycle..And...With these new 2 stroke oils, there is no smoke trail to speak of any more...Just good clean fun..Keep in mind similar looking kits are sold as F80 80cc kits. They are not. Ask the seller to supply the bore and stroke and then do the math, and you too will see, they are not 80cc motors, not even close. My engines are 70cc engines. Approximately 68cc's to be more exact. .My engines are the best by far and come with a 30 day money back guarantee to back up what I say..These kits come with everything you see in the pic, except the bicycle. It will take around 2 to 5 hours to install depending on the bike and tools that you have and take you to speeds of 30 to 40 mph with a 26 inch wheel. The kits I sell are superior to other engine kits that you might find because my kits have 33% larger cooling fins than other kits, more precise drive chain........ and Steel engine mount clamps "not Pot metal" , the steel clamps allow for some give to contour to the frame without breaking", CDI Ignition, 44T 9 hole rear sprocket, 1/2 gallon tank, Clutch, cables, Alloy Push button Clutch lever, Ball bearing Idler pully, a three hole spacer adapter in case you have a large oversize downtube, twist throttle and cable, Kill switch, 415 chain, and more..Everything except the bike. My engine kits come with a 30 day money back gurantee!! Even though other kits may look the same and tooled up the same..They are different!! Take no chances... You will love my kits.. I work directly with the manufacturing R&D engineers to make sure these engines are the best available. Bench Rotation testing of these motors is 10,000 Km which is approximately 6000 miles!! Wow..Like I said..They are very reliable. That is how I can guarantee them . We have been in business for over 16 years. We will be here when you need us....We are not a here now gone tomorrow company..We Service what we sell..and we sell service!!!...... Motor kits will only add around 15lbs or so to your bike..No kidding....Thanks for looking and have fun riding...You will have the most fun ever on your bike .'

    blablabla..... where is my 6000 miles? Where they are very reliable? That is how I can guarantee them - what does it mean? You will love my kits - I loved this KIT, and nothing about cheap metal.

    I think somebody don't want to be responsible for own words.
     
  7. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    As I said.

    I offer no guarantee or warranty for sales outside of the USA. As posted. I will help anyway I can. But.. For obvious reasons, there is no warranty for out of country sales. No guarantee or warranty for out of country lower 48 states sales is posted and is clear. Axiomatic. Even if you were state side, you are still out of warranty past 30 days. Either way, you are out of warranty. My suggestion is, find out what went wrong and fix it. I will help any way I can. I always do. For you to come into a forum and tell buyers beware when you are down on your luck is not the best way to help procurement. I suggest you find out what went wrong and what part or parts you need to get going again. Also. I see the pics. Please tell us the number of ounces of oil per gallon you were using and the type of oil. Thanks.. Enjoy the ride...
     
  8. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    if you had done any research before spending your money, you would have known that all the kit engines are made from very soft castings and/or metal
    (caveat emptor...buyer beware)

    as bad as I feel for you, it is not the sellers fault if it was a bad engine...if you were here in the states, he would've replaced it no questions asked (he is very well known here for this practice)

    he does state that there is no warranty out of the states, so you were aware of this befrore entering this transaction

    and trashing him here for your mis-fortune is not very cool (although I understand needing to vent about it)
     
  9. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    I can see in the pic the type of oil. but,..

    You need to tell me the number of ounces per gallon you were using. Please provide the number of ounces per gallon. Thanks..
     
  10. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    Douguk, sorry for your loss but buying these engines is a carpshoot sometimes. Some are better than others and some are worse. Unfortunately shipping to uk is darned expensive. Dax covered himself w/ a disclaimer. Sometimes we must honor that... as well, no merchant is going to tell the consumer that his engine is made of low quality materials... homework would have made that obvious to you. As Bill Clinton once ( or several times )said, " I feel your pain."
     
  11. greguk

    greguk Member

    Dear Friends

    I consider your opinions and I think We agree in some points:

    First Opinion:
    a) if you had done any research before spending your money, you would have known that all the kit engines are made from very soft castings and/or metal (azkronic) - which mean they are not reliable.

    b) Bench Rotation testing of these motors is 10,000 Km which is approximately 6000 miles!! They are very reliable. That is how I can guarantee them (Thatsdax) - which mean they are reliable.

    SELLER =/= USER

    ...if you were here in the states, he would've replaced it no questions asked - So my engine will not be replaced because it is in UK. With all respect I have to say you think wrong - all broken engines without customer fault have to be replaced because it's seller's responsibility. My spent $200 wasn't donation on Thatsdax account.

    if you had done any research before spending your money - hm my research... on left side of window - 1) ThatsDax.com advert (nothing there about engines which are made from very soft castings and/or metal - there is only how good they are). 2) http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=4452 85% users prefer Dax (maybe because He replace broken engines... only in USA)

    Please my friends don't behave childish: We have here situation where 1 person sold and takes money, 2nd trust him about reliability, 3rd guard him now and explain his fault.

    Please somebody have to responsibility for sold goods, can't wash hands every time when repair is expensive and ignore customers because they are outside of USA. Honesty is it a fear of American Psycho which could be unhappy for broken product. And looks like I can't do anything about it.

    End you my friend try to judge me for expecting my rights. You think It's emotions, but it's not. It's reaction for ignorance and too big self believe. SELLERS HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OWN PRODUCTS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO. IT IS LAW. I HAVE TO RIGHT EXPECT FROM SELLER QUALITY WHEN HE ADVERTISE OWN PRODUCT AS A RELIABLE AND LONG TIME USE.

    YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN EVERY DISASTER AS A BAD LUCK. NOBODY'S FAULT NOT EXIST ON MARKET. SELLERS ARE INSURED FOR SUCH A SITUATIONS. THEY CARRY ABOUT PRODUCT TO DON'T HAVE SUCH A SITUATIONS. I'M SORRY BUT NOBODY TOLD ME THAT I'M BUYING LOTTERY TICKET AND YOUR ENGINE COULD HAVE CRASH AND THERE IS A RISK OF BREAKAGE. THATSDAX NEVER EVER REMAIND ABOUT IT ON OWN PAGE.

    ...it is not the sellers fault if it was a bad engine.. - YES, I AGREE IT'S FAULT OF PURE CHINES WHICH ASSEMBLY THIS ENGINE WRONG, BUT UNFORTUNATELY SELLER TAKES THEIR RESPONSIBILITY FOR PRODUCT AFTER HE PAY LESS FOR BUNCH OF ENGINES AND SELL THEM FOR PROFIT. THIS PROFIT IS HIS COVERAGE FOR SITUATIONS LIKE THIS. THAT'S WHY PROFIT IS SMALLER OR BIGGER SOMETIMES.

    ...he does state that there is no warranty out of the states, so you were aware of this befrore entering this transaction...- UNFORTUNATLY ON THIS WORLD LAW MAKES RIGHTS NOT SELLERS. SELLER CAN WRITE WHATEVER HE WANT, BUT HE CAN'T TREAT SOME CUSTOMERS BETTER... HE HAVE TO TREAT THEM EQUAL BECAUSE HE TOOK THE SAME MONEY FROM THEM ($200)... THIS IS HIS RISK, HE HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE AND NOT HIDE AVAY BEHAIND BACK MOTORISED BICYCLE MEMBERS. I FEEL MEMBER AS WELL ANY OTHER USA MEMBER AND I NOT AGREE ON HIDING SELLERS FAULTS.

    ...and trashing him here for your miss-fortune is not very cool...- PLEASE MY FRIEND, YOU SAW THE PICTURES, FAULT IS SHOWN AND SELLER DON'T WANT TO REPLACE/GIVE BACK MONEY BECAUSE I'M NOT USA CITIZEN, BUT IT WASN'T MATER WHEN HE TOOK MY MONEY. HIDING FORM RESPONSIBILITY IS NOT VERY COOL. HE JUST NOT FEEL RESPECT TO ME AND MY MONEY- BUT WHAT FOR IF I'M NOT FROM USA AND HE HAVE MY MONEY NOW.

    BY THE WAY - I USED 2 STROKE MIXING BOTTLE - 1 LITTER + DOSE OIL (ON PICTURE WITH OIL. NO WORRIES I DOSE OIL CORRECTLY - 20-25 TO 1 LITTER.
     
  12. greguk

    greguk Member

    I see so many similar opinions :p - is it your thatsdax fans, children, coworkers, family or you yourself?

    PEOPLE - YOU SAW THE PHOTOS - SELLER HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OWN ACTIONS.
     
  13. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    ok....That does not answer the question at all

    I asked for how many ounces per gallon or oil you were using. Or.. How many ounces per liter would suffice. So.. Your answer was ? I used the bottle? BY THE WAY - I USED 2 STROKE MIXING BOTTLE - 1 LITTER + DOSE OIL. This is your answer? Ok.. So.. You do not know how many ounces of oil per liter you have been using. This is a serious problem. I appreciate your pictures. I can tell from your pictures of the piston that you have a lean condition. The piston is super clean for sure and looks cooked. Running to hot and with too little oil will do a lot of damage. Your piston looks nearly spotless and super clean for sure. This is a lack of oil lean condition. And..Since you have no idea how many ounces of oil per liter you are using, I would advise not buying any parts to repair motor, you will burn it up again. First you need to know how many ounces per liter you are mixing, and then tell me. I will do my best to help you.. Provided you let me. And.. Going on the attack and not being nice at all does not promote one to helping you. FYI.
     
  14. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    What ? you posted this? I see so many similar opinions :p - is it your thatsdax fans, children, coworkers, family or you yourself?

    PEOPLE - YOU SAW THE PHOTOS - SELLER HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OWN ACTIONS.

    These are disinterested 3rd parties. They are trying to help you. Sounds like you do not want to listen.
     
  15. drimpact

    drimpact Member

    So many similar opinions because the Dax kit is one of the better "Happy Times" kits, and Duane is one of the best retailers of the "Happy Times" kits.

    Very few other retailers will give us the time of day. Duane will answer every email and talk to you on the phone, his number is listed on his website and every ebay listing I have seen.

    I am not saying the Dax kit is perfect, but it is the best kit I have installed!

    I understand the need to vent! I really do, but now you have a choice; either fix it or junk it! but keep in mind, if you want to fix it you will need to get your parts from the same man you are "trashing" as parts are not universal!

    Good luck and i hope to read your fix it success Story
     
  16. gauge

    gauge Guest

    duwanye is a stand up guy and backs up his warentes and gurantees and his kits are the higher quality one
     
  17. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    if you cannot tell us how much oil you were using, then IMHO you shouldn't be running a 2 stroke
    a 2 stroke engine needs the oil for lubrication and too little is far worse than too much
    I understand your frustration with the situation, but we cannot give advice to someone who is unwilling/not able to give specifics on how they were running their engine
     
  18. motoschwinn

    motoschwinn Guest

    Personally, I feel if you aren't gonna warranty out of the 48 states, you shouldn't sell out of the 48, no matter how much of a stand up guy you are. But that's just a opinion of a family run business member of over 68 years.
     
  19. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    If that is the way you feel...Then..

    Then... In my opinion, If I were you, I would not sell out of the USA.
     
  20. motoschwinn

    motoschwinn Guest

    Guess that one went a bit over your head Duane, Sorry. Our family does not sell out of the US. The point was, if you aren't going to warranty outside of the 48, maybe you shouldn't sell either. It's kind of a free pass isn't it? Sell this motor and no worries on the warranty? Think about it, if you are willing to bend over backwards for customers inside the 48, doesn't benifit you even more on a business stand point to do the same for the customers outside the 48? Wouldn't that open up a whole new business opportunity for you?

    Who else is doing that?

    But what do I know.... I'll just keep selling office furniture.
     
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