Can you recommend a reliable powerful 4 stroke?
- Thread starter swbluto
- Start date
Ok, here's the deal. This is not that much different from taking a bicycle across the road and yes, I'll be researching the laws in advance with this one. The reasoning being is that the electric is stealth (And electrics are allowed anyways where I would go), and the whole idea was to hide it. If it really seems that hiding the gas engine is impractical, then I'll reconsider this option. Note, my other option is bringing a genset along to charge the batteries so there's not some necessary need to mechanically power it using gasoline, which sounds like the type that might be hard to conceal.
Now onto the practical advice - the bike will have regenerative braking to recharge the batteries during a descent, so downhill speed isn't a worry. And, if it is, it's pretty easy to increase the drag to slow down the speed.
The trailer itself will probably weigh around 20-25 pounds and the generator may way upwards of 65, and include 20 pounds for stuff, so we're talking about 100-110 pounds on the back. Considering that tandem braking technology is designed for upwards of 2 full sized adults (a.k.a, 500+ lbs), I think 350 pounds is well within design limitations.
Note, the electric part of the bike could easily sustain 60 mph if I so designed it. The thing is that the batteries couldn't take it for more than 4 miles, so it'd only be a "short distance" only option.
Now onto the practical advice - the bike will have regenerative braking to recharge the batteries during a descent, so downhill speed isn't a worry. And, if it is, it's pretty easy to increase the drag to slow down the speed.
The trailer itself will probably weigh around 20-25 pounds and the generator may way upwards of 65, and include 20 pounds for stuff, so we're talking about 100-110 pounds on the back. Considering that tandem braking technology is designed for upwards of 2 full sized adults (a.k.a, 500+ lbs), I think 350 pounds is well within design limitations.
Note, the electric part of the bike could easily sustain 60 mph if I so designed it. The thing is that the batteries couldn't take it for more than 4 miles, so it'd only be a "short distance" only option.
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Happy Valley
Active Member
Let's take this one step at a time.
1) Too much weight. It's true that I'm thinking about adding an extra 60-70 pounds over what I would usually carry, but with it being in a trailer and ONLY used for long distance trips (greater than 30 miles), that's not exactly a show-stopper.
2) Too much money. Well, I already have an electric bike with the batteries, so the electric part are "sunk costs", and I'm only forward looking. For the 90% of my trips, I rely on electric and don't pay a thing for gas. For the rare long distance, $400-500 is just a small drop in the bucket. It gets even less than that if I'm willing to be satisified by lower uphill speeds. (Hey, 1200 output watts or about 1.5 hp gets me 20 mph, and I think that should be within the realm of gasoline+electric+pedaling. 100 human input watts, 300 electric watts(to conserve battery power), and 800 gasoline watts or about 1 gasoline horsepower. I think that's obtainable with 50cc.)
3) technology overload. lol. I suppose for some. Another way to look at it if it's in "parallel" is increased system redundancy. a.k.a, increased reliability.
Note that the above is not "proof" as it's obviously highly situationally dependent (i.e., I already have an electric bike and you most likely don't, so the cost analysis will be different from your POV).
If electric or hybrid gas/electric would be the answer nobody would bother with gas bikes or cars anymore.
Hybrid cars are still not mainstream and they may never be.
Hybrid MB with batteries weight and cost + generator/ gas engine weight and cost + elecric motor weight and cost + control system weight and cost crammed on 30 or 40 lb bike is a total nonsence and a wishful dream.
Prove that electric hybrid MB will outperform a gas bike of similar weight being competitive in and price + potential fuel savings.
If your hybrid MB can outperform gas bike then prove that a total cost of it would be amortized in let's say 2 years or so, offsetting initial cost by a fuel savings.
I,ve been searching for MB set-up allowing to ride very rough and steep mountain road single tracks, another word I want to follow Gary Fisher without much of peddling LOL.
The only solution seems to be a top quality Mountain Bike with dependable motor (no problem, Honda GX 35 or GX50, Titan, or Subaru ECO or Mitsu 40 or Tanaka will do) + Staton box married to NuVinci tranny, expensive and heavy set-up.
For the price of this I can have 200cc Lifan dirt/road legal 16HP 80MPG bike which will carry me on the top of the highest mountain only limited by MINE technical capability, AND on the way to get to those mountains I can travel up to 60MPH on the asphalt. And yes with its 5 speed manual tranny I can go up to 30% ascents even haul a trailer if I want to.
That's what I will most likely go for, since no MB can even come close to this performance including initial price.
Hybrid cars are still not mainstream and they may never be.
Hybrid MB with batteries weight and cost + generator/ gas engine weight and cost + elecric motor weight and cost + control system weight and cost crammed on 30 or 40 lb bike is a total nonsence and a wishful dream.
Prove that electric hybrid MB will outperform a gas bike of similar weight being competitive in and price + potential fuel savings.
If your hybrid MB can outperform gas bike then prove that a total cost of it would be amortized in let's say 2 years or so, offsetting initial cost by a fuel savings.
I,ve been searching for MB set-up allowing to ride very rough and steep mountain road single tracks, another word I want to follow Gary Fisher without much of peddling LOL.
The only solution seems to be a top quality Mountain Bike with dependable motor (no problem, Honda GX 35 or GX50, Titan, or Subaru ECO or Mitsu 40 or Tanaka will do) + Staton box married to NuVinci tranny, expensive and heavy set-up.
For the price of this I can have 200cc Lifan dirt/road legal 16HP 80MPG bike which will carry me on the top of the highest mountain only limited by MINE technical capability, AND on the way to get to those mountains I can travel up to 60MPH on the asphalt. And yes with its 5 speed manual tranny I can go up to 30% ascents even haul a trailer if I want to.
That's what I will most likely go for, since no MB can even come close to this performance including initial price.
professor
Active Member
Andy nailed it quite well.
If you did the gas/electric with a standard generator, you will need to convert the 110 output to the voltage of your bike, this means a transformer. Ever pick up on of those- very heavy.
I am doing a gas/e-bike (on the electric section) to get away from the limitations of batterys.
NOT for efficiency, but because only e-bikes are legal here.
I am using a 24v alternator and HF79 to drive it.
The motor is a scooter 24 v 450. The bike will run off the batterys and the gas engine is the on/board genset.
If a small, light DC generator was available, that would be the cat's meow. A lot of people are not real happy with batterys.
If you did the gas/electric with a standard generator, you will need to convert the 110 output to the voltage of your bike, this means a transformer. Ever pick up on of those- very heavy.
I am doing a gas/e-bike (on the electric section) to get away from the limitations of batterys.
NOT for efficiency, but because only e-bikes are legal here.
I am using a 24v alternator and HF79 to drive it.
The motor is a scooter 24 v 450. The bike will run off the batterys and the gas engine is the on/board genset.
If a small, light DC generator was available, that would be the cat's meow. A lot of people are not real happy with batterys.
You know, I'd appreciate if people actually tried to help with the original intent of the thread instead of distracting from it with unconstructive criticisms.
Anyways, to andy, it's clear we have a different set of values.
You talk about "total cost". The only thing that matters is "future costs" as past costs are sunk, and future costs are entirely situational..
Then you talk about performance. I care about performance, true, but I'm not trying to maximize the performance/price envelope.
For this, I care more about reliability. A parallel hybrid system would have supreme reliability compared to relying on one system or another. If the gas engine goes out, I should still have about 60 miles on an electric charge at a slower pace of 15-20 mph, assuming I contribute an average of 100-150 watts. I can fix whatever needs to be fixed at the next destination, and charge on route if need be. It would lengthen trip time in that emergency scenario, true, but I wouldn't be "stranded".
As to criticisms of the hybrid design, I think you're likely just hostile to electric systems in general. That's OK, if you don't see any advantages with them. However, I find substantial advantages with being able to go *wherever* I want, when I want, without noise disturbances nor dirty looks nor the thought of polluting the air that detriments the health of those around me. In urban areas, I try to avoid health-harming emissions as much as possible (or minimize my contribution), and electrics have a supreme advantage in this department. By using a hybrid system, I would be able to take advantage of the best features of electric while retaining the range advantages of gasoline. Furthermore, I can *take* away the gasoline part just by undocking the trailer so that I won't have its disadvantages in sensitive areas, nor the weight.
Also, this also has a large educational benefit, as towards my future phev that I'll likely custom make.
Anyways, to andy, it's clear we have a different set of values.
You talk about "total cost". The only thing that matters is "future costs" as past costs are sunk, and future costs are entirely situational..
Then you talk about performance. I care about performance, true, but I'm not trying to maximize the performance/price envelope.
For this, I care more about reliability. A parallel hybrid system would have supreme reliability compared to relying on one system or another. If the gas engine goes out, I should still have about 60 miles on an electric charge at a slower pace of 15-20 mph, assuming I contribute an average of 100-150 watts. I can fix whatever needs to be fixed at the next destination, and charge on route if need be. It would lengthen trip time in that emergency scenario, true, but I wouldn't be "stranded".
As to criticisms of the hybrid design, I think you're likely just hostile to electric systems in general. That's OK, if you don't see any advantages with them. However, I find substantial advantages with being able to go *wherever* I want, when I want, without noise disturbances nor dirty looks nor the thought of polluting the air that detriments the health of those around me. In urban areas, I try to avoid health-harming emissions as much as possible (or minimize my contribution), and electrics have a supreme advantage in this department. By using a hybrid system, I would be able to take advantage of the best features of electric while retaining the range advantages of gasoline. Furthermore, I can *take* away the gasoline part just by undocking the trailer so that I won't have its disadvantages in sensitive areas, nor the weight.
Also, this also has a large educational benefit, as towards my future phev that I'll likely custom make.
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fm2200
Member
This talk of getting more from a mere bicycle with a gas/electric combo is attainable. But the limitations are not realized by the guy that's trying to achieve this on the least possible $$ spent on said venture. Real safety is not going to be achieved with thoughts only of propulsion, to further complicate matters a trailer is in the mix. My view is this is only suppose to be a simple means of getting around for less $ for gas and have a little lighthearted fun in your travels. Try to take stock of the life and limb at stake-yours and maybe someone else.
"Cheaper way of getting around for less money". No, not really. Flight would be a cheaper option considering the probable lifetime of the gas engine, maintenance costs, the extra time taken when going bicycling speeds, and the amount of long distance trips I plan on taking. And there are even cheaper options than flight.
It's more to do with the adventure of touring by bicycle, with the added advantage of a substantially increased practical range in a given day. I can get to Norther California in about 12 days by manually biking, or 3 days with an engine. The time advantage has a lot to do with it over a regular bike, and the adventurousness, "peacefulness" when I want it, and the versatility over a regular motorcycle.
I suppose I could get a regulator motorcycle and just bring my electric bike/scooter in a trailer.
That may make more sense economically and time-wise, although 60-70+ mph on two wheels just doesn't seem safe to me. (But how much safer is it then hugging the shoulder of a 60 mph highway on a bike going 30-35? I dunno.)
I also found the carb compliant honda 50cc motor that puts out about 2 hp. That might have good legality in the event of being stopped, and might mate well with a recumbent (Aerodynamics, comfort and all).
It's more to do with the adventure of touring by bicycle, with the added advantage of a substantially increased practical range in a given day. I can get to Norther California in about 12 days by manually biking, or 3 days with an engine. The time advantage has a lot to do with it over a regular bike, and the adventurousness, "peacefulness" when I want it, and the versatility over a regular motorcycle.
I suppose I could get a regulator motorcycle and just bring my electric bike/scooter in a trailer.
That may make more sense economically and time-wise, although 60-70+ mph on two wheels just doesn't seem safe to me. (But how much safer is it then hugging the shoulder of a 60 mph highway on a bike going 30-35? I dunno.)I also found the carb compliant honda 50cc motor that puts out about 2 hp. That might have good legality in the event of being stopped, and might mate well with a recumbent (Aerodynamics, comfort and all).
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