Cautioned in Adelaide South Australia

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by jahmonn, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. jahmonn

    jahmonn New Member

    Not a child skylarking .. but a grown man comfortably motoring at 32 kph on what I believed to be a legal machine .. lights helmet etc. Pulled over by police claiming doing 39kph. Drivers license details taken and warned if pulled over again will be taken to court ordered to ride bike home under pedal power.
    Court action details included charge of unlicensed,unregistered,uninsured and unroadworthy vehicle (lots of un's eh). Basically hinged upon 200 watt output
    limit . Officer stating anything over 200 watt would be classed as a motorbike.
    I need to find a dynamo printout for a 48cc engine showing max output of 200watt .. even if the engine has been governed to the max to produce this. If the law wants to say cannot govern to produce .. will cite that scooters and semi trailers are governed.Scooters are governed to 50kph and semi trailers to 100kph. I might have to get dynamo test done myself as I haven't been able to find the information I seek. So looking for someone with access to motorcycle dynamo for such purposes. Once this has been achieved it will pave the way. Since all motor vehicles are tested via dynamo giving power off driving wheel at point of contact with road, I would presume this to be the appropriate way to test a bike. All feedback welcome =)
    Have been in contact with a few motored bike manufacturers.:detective:
    Police registered official caution in their computer database!
     

  2. jahmonn

    jahmonn New Member

    attached info from motor registration

    1135_power_assisted_bicycle.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  3. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    200 watts is nothing.....that's about one person power(on a good day) & roughly 1/4 HP,so even the smallest petrol engine is going to produce way more than that.
    Don't see how any amount of policeing can be inforced unless there's a blanket ban on ALL motorized bicycles,OR every single MB is officially dyno tested & approved.
    Hope your case jahmonn doesn't become the rule rather than the exception & if anyone local is booked & taken to court i'll donate whatever(time/money) to help them fight it.......A FIGHTING FUND. :2guns:
     
  4. jahmonn

    jahmonn New Member

    clarification

    I was not booked/charged however the incident details were entered in database so that if pulled over again it will show up on police vehicle computer that I have been officially cautioned and therefore am in breech ie to be charged with riding a motorcycle (over 200 watts) with no motorcycle licence and the vehicle being unregistered,unroadworthy(insufficient brakes), uninsured(third party).
    200 watts max is the law here..this motor complies
    http://www.rotarybike.com/rotarybike_products.asp?type=Petrol
    The outer dimensions of my motor would suggest that the actual capacity should be much less than 48cc.
    Claims made by the rotary engine are that at 30cc can be under 200 watt and still produce 25-30kph.
    Am still researching to see if can reduce my output to under 200 watt on dynamometer.
    The cautioning officer also mentioned that his sergeant and he had researched the subject.
    There is also a supplier selling a different engine which they claim to be specially made solely for that store which complies but they didn't give details. Upon purchase I would recieve a certificate of compliance though minimum cost would be $550 to convert my own bike.

    I'd prefer to modify my engine to comply than spend money which I don't have :cool:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2009
  5. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    jahmonn - Strange as it is, the most economical and climate-friendly motor vehicle on the planet is illegal on Australian roads. I've been following this issue for 12 months and I believe that the authorities are toughening up.

    I believe that the time has come to fully state the case FOR light pedal/motor-assisted bicycles. See the thread "Australian legislation/regulations/ADRs"
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2009
  6. heathyoung

    heathyoung Member

    Hmmm.....

    The NSW legislation (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrat...and_power-assisted_pedal_cycles_july_2008.pdf)

    is a little bit more open to interpretation. It doesn't specify a capacity for a power-assisted pedal cycle (alhough a capacity of under 50cc and under 50Kph for a moped is specified) its a lot more open than the SA laws (no max speed).

    Potentially a 50cc could be restricted down (with an exhaust restricter or a rev limiter - eg a low pass 12db/octave filter on the CDI leads).

    Does anyone have a torque/power/rpm graph for a HT engine??? I'm loathe to assume a linear power relationship - eg. 0 at 0 rpm, 1.2KW @ 6,500 rpm, 200W @ ??? rpm.
     
  7. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    I don't think so. That information sheet says; "Owners and users of pedal-assisted cycles should be able to prove that the motor power output is not more than 200 watts, and that the cycle's primary source or propulsion is pedal power."

    if you've been pulled over by the boys in blue as you charged up the Great Western Highway at 30 kph because you could not hide 1000 watts of throbbing power, you would need to talk like a politician to wriggle out of it. It strikes me that they aren't particularly interested unless they're a nuisance or they have nothing else to do.
     
  8. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    isn't the watt requirment for an elect motor bike only ?
    here in the States we have
    a watt max for elect
    and HP max for gas

    hope that you can ride that thing
     
  9. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    Australian road rules don't really make the distinction between electric and petrol on a bicycle. Australian authorities are currently looking at increasing power-assistance limit on bicycles from 200 to 300 watts.

    MBs are illegal, but enforcement seems disinterested.

    I think that the only option available would be create a motor vehicle category to fit between bicycles and mopeds (50cc light motorcycles).
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2009
  10. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    that's a shame

    that's a shame that you all down under there
    don't have some MB laws already in place

    a category between bicycles and mopeds
    might be called -- (motorized bicycles) instead of 50cc light motorcycles
    the more that one can stay away from that motorcycles sounding THING
    may be much better off

    seems best to have the elect and gas separate
    with elect having a max wattage output
    gas having a max HP output

    sure is nice to ride that THING
     
  11. heathyoung

    heathyoung Member

    All this stuff kinda annoys me - the government is paying lip service to environmental issues, increasing the limits would help to reduce fuel usage etc.

    All of this said, it would be quite possible to limit the throttle travel to keep the power to a sensible limit, and an engraved plate stating that the motor is limited to 200W in accordance with RTA guidelines blah blah blah could be fitted as well.
     
  12. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    I'll have to bite here,
    200W limited power bikes is not enough, it's unsafe cos there is no back up power to get out the way and causes traffic congestion, frustration and the cagers simply cut of a slow MB.
    It seems to happen less on a HT MB cos there is ample power to keep traffic flow moving enough to let a cager tail-gate and not get frustrated or not cut off in front when they want to turn a corner.

    300W amendments seems to have been flirted, imaginatively would still seem not enough back-up power for defensive riding.

    500W would seem convenient when you take into account head wind, oncomng traffic etc to ride defensivley when power is required.


    If ya go for 300W it's too conservative and may be just as unsafe as 200W

    Those who drive or have driven for a living would understand what I'm saying about our road "manners".

    Sanitised glossy scientific/mathematical research and formulations made on some white board by those sitting in some air conditioned room who never ridden a MB means zilch unless practical real-time test riding can form a reality based bench mark, at least.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  13. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    Problem in Australia is that anything over 200W is technically prohibited and it is real hit-and-miss as to whether you'll get pulled over.

    Therefore, the MBikers need to put together a coherent, evidence-based case for MBs that is readily visible to all visitors. I have proposed a forum called; "Sustainable Transport - ride a motorized bike". Read my latest tome in the "Save the Planet..." thread.
     
  14. MotorMac

    MotorMac Member

    The Australian authorities are toughening up the laws because of this idiot.http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24893628-5001021,00.html. Every Australian police officer now knows to watch and crack down on M.B.s.
     
  15. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    Thanks MotorMac. It's tragic! Every time I see bad press like that, I could cry.

    Where are the good-news stories? Mine, for example, I've commuted 7,500 kms on a motorized bike in 18 months at about 120 kilometres per litre. There must be others.

    How about putting your support for a "Sustainable Transport - ride a motorized bike" forum on the "Save the Planet ..." thread in the white zone forum.
     
  16. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member


    MB's is not the blame here. The problem is his unlimited access to booze.

    Survey on grog and brain cells
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041108015734.htm

    In particular this section of a paragraph

    He will do it again and again and again until this person realises his brain cells are gone, or he may never realize.
    How many others out there no longer have the abilty to understand negative consequences,until it's too late ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
  17. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    Thanks BoltsMissing. The current situation in Australia is untennable. The only choices are prohibition or regulation.

    I personally don't see that MBs are more dangerous than light motorcycles. I think the problem for regulators is managing the idiot factor.
     
  18. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    Nup, that is not what I was getting at if you are hinting at legals.

    I'm getting to the point that this person's action, to fall asleep on a freeway, whether he was walking, skydiving, hangliding, whatever, but in this case unfortunatley he had a MB, he still would have done somethng crazy anyway. So why is he THAT crazy ?
    His brain cells don't exist where, "ability to understand negative consequences", is concerned according to medical research.

    He was drunk, but he has other offences relating to a history of booze according the news report.
    Therefore he is chronically sick and needs to be informed somehow that he is sick, or it will happen again.
    Once he is informed and understands he has "no ability to understand negative consequences" BEFORE he takes his next drink, then hopefully he does his own "prohibition and regulation".
    Cos I bet if he was sober, this would not have occured !
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2009
  19. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    Couldn't agree more. Problem is that MBs only hit the press when someone hurts themselves while under the influence of alcohol. It is guilt by association - MBs are bad because they are associated with offenders.

    That is why I've proposed a forum; "Sustainable Transport - ride a motorized bike" to attract some good news stories.
     
  20. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    No. Power is power. It's just that it is common in the U.S. to use different units of power for the two types of motors. And, this is beginning to change, especially for small utility engines, and for the VERY large engines (used in stationary generators, locomotive & ship propulsion, etc.) With small engines, you'll often find BOTH units in the motor specs.

    1.0 HP = 746 Watts = 0.746 KW
     
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