Clutch is STILL always engaged

Discussion in 'Frame Mounted Engines' started by Patdon10, May 8, 2009.

  1. Patdon10

    Patdon10 New Member

    Well, I bought the ball, and I bought the pin and I put it all together. Whether I press the clutch handle or not, the engine is still always under compression. I attached some photos, that will hopefully help you guys help me find the problem.

    Pictures of clutch lever pulled, clutch lever not pulled and how far out the pin sticks.

    Anyone have any ideas? It's really annoying to not have a peddle mode.
     

    Attached Files:


  2. biken stins

    biken stins Member

    Tighten cable. Repeat till it suits you. Something like pliers or vise grips may be needed to move the splined arm atop the shaft.
    The splined arm that turns the rod that pushes the bearing & every thing, it can be removed and adjusted. Just a bit 4 or 5 notches on the spline ( counter clockwise ) will make is easier to pull.
    When you adjust the cable and pull clutch handle in, it sets clutch (sometimes ) if so adjust again.
    Good Luck.
     
  3. BoltsMissing

    BoltsMissing Active Member

    The pin looks too short, did you use the same size bearing as the original HT bearing ?
     
  4. Junster

    Junster Member

    In the first pic, does the clutch arm have resistance right away from that position when you push it towards the motor? If it does take the cable out of the arm and shorten up the brass lock on the cable about 1/4" then push the arm over by hand and rehook the cable. It should make the cable pull the arm far enough to release it. Also you could try really shortening the cable so it pulls it way over and riding a little to get the clutch to break free. If none of that works take the 5 bolt cover off the other side so you can see the clutch plate and work the lever to see what's wrong. The brassy colored plate should move out away from the clutch pucks.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  5. Patdon10

    Patdon10 New Member

    alright. sounds good. I'll give everything a try and report back.

    yeah, the ball is 8mm.
     
  6. Patdon10

    Patdon10 New Member

    Another side note....the arm that spins, doesn't really seem to do anything. When I look what happens when I manually spin the arm, it just appears that the pin spins a little bit, but doesn't actually move in or out. So I took the cover off and gave the pin a push, trying to replicate what should happen. No matter how hard I push I can NOT get the pin to move in at all. It almost seems like the entire clutch piece is seized.
     
  7. Junster

    Junster Member

    The arm the cable goes to should be hard to push right away. If you take the cover off there's a flat cut in the bottom of the shaft that arm is attached to. As it turns it pushes the pin in, the pin pushes the ball, the ball pushes the clutch shaft. There are several clutch adjustment threads in this area. If the arm the cable goes to isn't hard to push in less than 1/2" of travel then it isn't engaging the pin quick enough. You won't have enough leverage to push the pin by hand with the cover off. It may just be the clutch plate is stuck on the pucks. That's why if you can get the arm pushed in far enough so it's pushing hard on the clutch and ride it may break them free. If it does the clutch will start slipping alot so don't ride very far at all till you can readjust the cable. I hate to advocate a hammer but if the cable arm is hard to push right away and it just will not release you could take the left cover off put a brass drift against the pin and whack it once to try and break the clutch shaft free.
     
  8. Patdon10

    Patdon10 New Member

    The arm is very easy to push. It takes no effort0 whatsoever. It doesn't seem like the arm is doing anything, it has no forward - backward motion on the pin, it just spins it a little bit.
     
  9. Patdon10

    Patdon10 New Member

    The clutch is absolutely frozen. It seems like 2 things are wrong.

    firstly, With the ball inside as well as the pin, the pin isn't long enough to be pushed by the arm, hence the arm spins freely and has no resistance in spinning whatsoever.

    So, I put a 2nd ball inside, which pushed the pin out a little further. No matter how hard I push, the clutch arm will NOT spin so the round end touches the ball. It will only allow the flat side to touch the pin. Something is so frozen that no matter what I do, I can't get the clutch to disengage.

    I'm seriously considering getting a replacement engine. This one has been **** since the start as far as the clutch goes. Parts have been missing, the directions were terrible. I don't know what is wrong with the clutch and I can't figure it out.

    Now, I have started the bike before, by simply pushing on the peddles as hard as I can downhill. It immediately drives the engines compression, I give the choke a little air, and the engine fires right up. As soon as I slow down, the engine dies, so I really need to be able to disengage the clutch to enjoy the bike ride.

    I don't know what else to do...
     
  10. mastafoo

    mastafoo New Member

    At least you got yours running, mine is impossible to pedal at all. My problem is similar, except the clutch arm/levers have resistance. I'm seriously considering getting a replacement as well.
     
  11. Junster

    Junster Member

    Ok Patdon10 I think you have this assembled right. The ball goes in the hole in the drive shaft before the pin goes in. The shaft in the cover never touches the ball. Your description of "the flat end on the pin" that's how it's suppose to be. What I'm wondering is where the original ball and pin went? If the original ball broke apart and is still buried in there it's never going to work. If you decide to disassemble the clutch it's up to you. There's a couple threads in the drive section with good pics showing how.
     
  12. Junster

    Junster Member

  13. Patdon10

    Patdon10 New Member

    yeah, I'm less frustrated today, so I think I will take the clutch apart. Can someone point me to a thread that gives detailed instructions on how to do this? Maybe I can find out what's seizing. I don't think the ball broke apart, I really think it was never there, because I had no pin in the first place. Who knows, I may find a suprise.
     
  14. Junster

    Junster Member

  15. dan48cc

    dan48cc New Member

    please dont grind or cut anything, i think i might have the answer for you. it is so simple you will most likely laugh but i happened to me and after calling the seller this is what i was told.
    with the clutch locked to the engine. stand beside the bike and put your weight on the seat, walk the bike backwards. this will clunk and carry on but perservere. keep walking the bike backwards till you hear a big ping or a heavier clunk and the problem will be solved. it seems that these little mass produced engines are not always properly checked when leaving the factory and some of the clutch mechanisms have dags on them that cause them to jam. i did this on one of my bikes and fixed it first go. had to walk it back about 5 metres beforeit happened. let me know how you go.
     
  16. Patdon10

    Patdon10 New Member

    Ok. I'll give it a try. Will the bike still be under compression backwards? When you say clutch locked, you mean pull the clutch handle and press the button to lock it, correct?

    What can I use as a shim between the ball and pin? It's clear that there is too much space between the ball and pin because the arm won't even touch it (flat side or round side), but with 2 balls in, I think there is a little bit too much of the pin sticking out.
     
  17. dan48cc

    dan48cc New Member

    engaged clutch

    by locked i mean with the handle out and drive engaged. the motor will still have compression but will not start as of the slow speeds at which you are moving. the problem you are having is that inside where the pin goes is jammed. by rotating it backwards it should release and the pin and ballshould come out alot further giving you the extra length you need. then you will onl need the one ball or maybe even none at all and the clutch should work as normal. my engine doesnt have the ball just the pin. hope it works.
     
  18. Patdon10

    Patdon10 New Member

    Alright, I want to take this thing apart to see if I can figure anything out. I have the right side cover plate off. I was able to break loose that screw as you can see from the whole in the picture. How do you take the little "star plate" off of the middle so I can get to the brass piece underneath. I can see that when I turn the arm, the clutch WANTS to push out but clearly, something is jambed.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Patdon10

    Patdon10 New Member

    yeah, I'll definately try that out tomorrow when I get the chain on.
     
  20. dan48cc

    dan48cc New Member

    as far as pulling it apart i cannot give you any further info as i dont know that engine. mine is similar but as i yet have not pulled it apart i dont want to give you a bum steer with it. good luck though i hope you can sort it out
     
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