Clutch Clutch issues

Discussion in 'Transmission / Drivetrain' started by Snarfu, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. Snarfu

    Snarfu Member

    Hey guys, I'm in need of your expertise again...

    I took my clutch cover off to change the stock lube (I hate that red ****..) and rotate the clutch to keep it from sticking out at that awkward angle. When I wiped off the lube, a small, cylindrical shaft came out the middle of the gear-- and it won't go back in! Any tricks?

    Also, does anyone know of a good how to on rotating the clutch arm?

    As always, any help is appreciated.
     

  2. Cali-Rider

    Cali-Rider Member

    The clutch arm is splined to the clutch cam. You might have to remove the 3 bolts then take the cover off to get the cam out but it sounds like you are already at that point.

    The pin should slide in easily after you put the ball inside. (both should be lubed up really well)

    If you remove the nut from the top of the cam then you can pop the arm off of the splines. Re-instal the clutch arm perpendicular to the way the clutch cable points towards it. You can do that by installing that pin inside the gear's center shaft. then installing the cover and cam without the arm on it. Once that is installed you can see what angle works best for the arm and start working it onto the splines. The total pull of your clutch cable is not very far... Maybe 1/2 to 3/4 inch...

    Hope that helps!
     
  3. Cali-Rider

    Cali-Rider Member

    To clarify, there is a ball that goes in first before the pin in the shaft that holds the drive sprocket. It might not come out if there is enough of their red lube packed inside.

    Have you gotten the pin to fit back into the shaft yet?
     
  4. Snarfu

    Snarfu Member

    No, I've been too busy eating lasagna and playing with the dog. I will get motivated shortly and search for the ball.
     
  5. Snarfu

    Snarfu Member

    The ball is in there, but the shaft will only go about 2/3 of the way in before it hits it. :-/
     
  6. Big Red

    Big Red Active Member

    Clutch

    Sometimes the Ball Bearing is stuck inside. You can use a light to check inside the hole to see if it's still there. Sometimes they just fall out, sometimes an act of God won't get it out. If it's still in there and won't come out, just put a big glob of grease on the end of the pin (and all around the pin) and ram it home. This is the point on which the clutch spins with some pressure on it so grease it WELL.
    Also try to get grease on the clutch arm where it goes through the case and on the flat part where it hits the pin. It's not a great design so it needs all the help it can get.
    Also, While you already have the grease out, Take the cover off the other side and you'll see the small crank gear going to the larger clutch gear. VERY CAREFULLY, dab a little grease on the gears ONLY. Not too much or you'll throw any excess grease on the clutch pads and thats not a good thing.
    If you ride a lot check these every month and lube as needed. If not so much every two or three months should do it.
    Keep The Shiney Side Up, Rubber Side Down.
    Big Red.
     
  7. Snarfu

    Snarfu Member

    Unfortunately ramming it home isn't working. I could try taking a rubber mallet to it, but that seems a bit extreme.
     
  8. Big Red

    Big Red Active Member

    Clutch

    It don't go all the way in bro, just about 3/4 of it. It sticks out about 1/2 inch or so to hit the flat part of the clutch lever.
    Big Red.
     
  9. Cali-Rider

    Cali-Rider Member

    Yeah, the pin should stick out of the gear a little bit. As long as the cover still fits over the gear with the cam flat against the pin you are good to go.
     
  10. Big Red

    Big Red Active Member

    Clutch Pin.

    The "Cam" he's talking about is the Clutch arm cam. Thats the flat spot at the bottom of the clutch arm. When it is pulled and it turns the arm the cam hits the pin and pushes it in, disengageing the clutch. Be sure to put a blob of grease on that flat part (cam) too. And Cali is right, As long as the pin is sticking out some and the cover still goes on it should be cool. You can adjust the clutch further from the other side. When you get to that adjustment we'll help with that also.
    Big Red.
     
  11. NCPete72

    NCPete72 New Member

    I have a similar problem with my 49cc HT. It's stuck in neutral and won't start. I can see the ball bearing, and the pin fits as it should. After I put it back together, the clutch engages at first, but two or three squeezes and it's stuck in again. I should mention that the chain came off and carved a nice groove on the interior of the cover recently and this produced a good amount of fine metal shavings. After writing that I guess I know the answer, LOL, but I'd appreciate any advice as I'm a newbie and just want to ride the **** thing. (Truthfully I'm having as much fun tinkering with it as I've had riding!)
     
  12. Snarfu

    Snarfu Member

    Sounds like a tension issue. Make sure the screw on the metal ferrule that holds the clutch cable at length to the clutch arm is super tight. I recommend thread locker and a pair of vice grips to really get a good amount of tension. Also don't be afraid to push the clutch arm in slightly to reduce slack. This is the only part of my build I enlist a buddy for- one guy/gal to push the arm and tug on the cable w vice grips, the other to jam that ferrule against the clutch arm and tighten it down like mad.

    Don't get frustrated w all the tinkering! The end is nigh!
     
  13. Snarfu

    Snarfu Member

    Oh, and get rid of those shavings! Re lube using assembly lube found at your friendly local auto parts store or sterile giant conglomerate. A little goes a long way.
     
  14. Big Red

    Big Red Active Member

    I've found that the bucking bar comes in different lengths. If the bar is too short it will allow the arm to be over pulled and it will stick in the "too far in" position. you can pull it back by hand but that gets old QUICK. You can also sometimes adjust your clutch a little tighter to correct this. I've seen, more then once, the bucking bar come TOO SHORT from the factory. SO, find a good STEEL bolt very, very close to the same diameter that has a smooth shanked top just a "little" longer then your bucking bar. Cut it just a smidgen longer, smooth the ends, put a LOT of grease on it, install it and see what happens. I've done this A LOT and it works very well. If you make the bar too long, the case will not close and you can just grind off a little more of the bar untill the case fits just right.
    Big Red.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  15. NCPete72

    NCPete72 New Member

    Thanks Snarfu and Big Red.
    I should clarify my issue, maybe. I was riding on Sunday for about 90 minutes when the clutch stopped working. I went along, pedaling, with the motor running and the throttle working, into a parking lot where I hit the kill switch and then could not restart. The bike has been in neutral since.
    Between work and family I haven't had a chance to get into it, but I hope to find time tonight and I will take the steps you all recommended and let you know how it comes out. Hoping it's a tension problem as that seems the simplest and quickest fix and seems most likely since there is only about 1/4" of cable past the ferrule at the clutch arm. BTW the clutch arm is presently about 20 degrees outside of parallel to the case, if that provides any clues. Thanks for your attention and friendly advice!
     
  16. Krisma

    Krisma New Member

    I also have a clutch problem.... Last week my clutch, which worked great but very stiff out of the box, started failing. The clutch arm was loose with lots of play and i would adjust the slack out of the cable. It would work great until i rode the bike 10 minutes , then wouldn't disengaging all the way. Finally, would end up without clutch. Ordering a replacement clutch cover plate with clutch arm, but is there an adjustment to the "bucking bar"? Took the clutch pressure plate out and was wondering what causes the tension in the bucking bar/ball?
     
  17. Greg58

    Greg58 Member

    There is a spring that supplies tension to the clutch, the link below should help.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Big Red

    Big Red Active Member

    Just a thought Krisma, Most of the time the engine comes from the factory with NO LUBE whatsoever. The bucking bar takes a lot of spinning and pressure and without a good greasing it will grind down. This will make you lose your clutch little by little, or sometimes slightly quicker. I've seen bucking bars ground down so far that there is no chance at all of adjusting the clutch properly. When installing the bucking bar, first, make sure the bearing is still in place. Then, fill the hole it slids into with heavy grease. Any extra grease will be pushed out and you wipe it off. Next, Apply a good amount of grease to the flat of the clutch arm where it hits the bucking bar. I always put an extra dab on the end of the bucking bar also, just to make sure.
    Checking the lube points on your engine should be a monthly thing, or perhaps more if you ride a lot. So as long as you already have the grease out, apply a SMALL amout of grease to the clutch gear and the small crank gear that drives it. TOO MUCH and you'll sling it onto your clutch pads and thats not a good thing. So, like I said, a LITTLE grease.
    Next, if you're real good, try to get a SMALL amount of grease into the small clutch bearings. Once you have the clutch plate off you can see them behind the press ring that holds the clutch together. Personally, I'm not that good and I just put a drop or two of heavy oil on it and help it work itself in. Grease is better, oil is better then nothing. I do this to all of my engines and have never had as many clutch issues like most people do. The only thing I have to do is change the pads once in a while. A lubed clutch will last a LOT longer than a dry one.
    Big Red.
     
  19. Greg58

    Greg58 Member

    Krisma have you checked your cable? When I first built mine the same happened. Then the cable broke. Now on every new cable I pull the cable out of the housing and coat it with water proof grease from end to end. Then put the cable back together, I haven't had a cable fail since.
     
  20. Big Red

    Big Red Active Member

    Krisma,
    And sometimes the cable housing will break through the cable end cap.That will let it do what you described.
     
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