Clutch keeps.. doing something.

Discussion in 'Frame Mounted Engines' started by Hajuu, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    Hey guys, it's me again :p

    Just having a problem with my clutch.. took a look at it, took off the star nut and had a look in there, all looked ok, put it back together.. Everything was fine.. Put the cable back on and squeezed the handle, it disengaged the clutch and I could turn the wheel fine.

    But like, when I squeezed it the next time, it kind of clicked, and then the clutch lever on the outside of the casing didnt return on its own anymore and was also impossible to get functioning with the cable on (couldnt pull it to the point where it seemed to click back in).

    The bucking bar looks a little bit worn around the edges and is infact custom made by me from hardened steel (which I didnt um, anneal or the opposite thing where you restrengthen it) after cutting and finishing, but it doesn't really look.. smaller or anything. Just a bit worn/flattened around the edges.

    Any ideas?
     

  2. lucas

    lucas Member

    i Had that problem once with the clutch pin failing to return. i threaded that big cooling spring around the clutch wire. worked fine solved my problem. was a pain turning the spring round and round but it was worht it. hope this helps.
     
  3. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    hmm, really? does it just give it a bit of extra springyness or something? I'll give it a try shortly and report back.
     
  4. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    First, this needs to be moved to the frame mounted section, maybe more reply's....Isolate the problem. Remove the clutch cable, take a small pair of vice grips or the like and move clutch arm the same distance that the cable would. If when you relax pressure on the arm, and if it returns, then your problem is in the cable/housing/routing. If not its in the clutch linkage itself.
     
  5. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    Sorry, as I said it kind of pops in and out when the cable is not attached.

    So no, it does not return properly on its own when its at the extremes of its movement range without the cable attached. However, moving it with my hand back a small distance (as the spring is designed to do) it pops again and springs back as it should (still without the cable).

    The cable *is* in pretty bad shape and I will replace it, but it works usually at first, and then after a few pulls it will usually end up stuck.
     
  6. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    Also, just to give some details of how the problem occurred in the first place, I was riding along and pulled the clutch and felt a similar pop, and then the clutch was no longer working at all.

    Now, when I pull it it usually works a few times after i've just put the cable back on, and then pops when using the cable one more time (as an example) and gets stuck.
     
  7. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    bucking bar...who the **** came up with that stupid name?

    pushrod really sounds much more precise and sensible. but maybe im stupid.

    so.

    is there any sort of groove worn into the bore of the sprocket shaft, causing this bar to catch occasionally? (and if it was hardened, you wouldnt have done anything other than grind it... annealing is softening fyi)

    hows that ball bearing behind it looking?

    is it the irght diameter even?

    have you checked the sprocket cover where the clutch arm rotates? is it sitting completely in, and engaging fully with the bar, or merely lifting up and over it? or is this hole a very loose fit?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010
  8. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    and you didnt mention whether the clutch itself is staying engaged...
     
  9. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    ok sorry it took me some time to get back to you guys, it was late last night before I got back to it, and did a whole bunch of stuff.

    Tightened up the star nut a bit, made a new bucking bar that was a bit longer and made of much much tougher stuff, greased everything, tightened the mounting nut on the other side of the clutch (in the middle of the chain sprocket).

    Now! Everything seems to be working, infact, as soon as I managed to get it working, it seemed to spark up right away, after like 6 months of sitting in a dank garage (the thing was filthy when I got it back)! Success. Or was it.

    Rode around for a bit, engine was running beautifully. Also the clutch arm had a much more normal range of movement (previously with the last bucking bar I had, it seemed as though the clutch arm ended up literally touching the fuel bowl of the carb with the handle fully held in, now its much further back in the arc.

    However! as I said there's a problem. Comming from inside the erm, crank case (the one with the chain sprocket in it) is a loud kind of popping and grinding noise. I'm sure this is to do with my new bucking bar but unsure as to what exactly to change. The popping is mostly what alarms me, as the grinding is pretty low key, but the popping sounds like 'im going to break'.

    If there's any details about the sound I can provide which may help diagnose just ask (cant provide a recording sorry).

    To me it seems like:
    1. The bucking bar is too long (popping)
    2. because it was threaded, it may be too rough currently (grinding)
    3. the end may be slightly too uneven or have a slight lip/ridge (pop/grind?) (which end?)
    4. any/all of the above.

    Any other things I can check?
     
  10. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    Ok so update!

    I just:
    1. ground down both ends of the new bar reducing its length slightly and smoothly beveling the corners.
    2. smoothed the thread of the bolt down. I figured it would improve friction to have less contact points but the grind is now definately better.
    3. Cleaned and regreased the entire lot thoroughly

    The grind now is a lot better, but the pop almost seems worse. The only thing else thats changed is due to the bucking bar being shorter now, there's a slight bit more slack on the clutch (mostly I took it up with the in-cable expander thing but there's still a bit more.. it's fine).

    yarr so close xD.

    Going to go see if I can adjust my wheel a little bit, but if anyone has any ideas, hit me back asap! :)

    Cheers!
    Mike.
     
  11. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    After adjusting the wheel the chain is very tight, and now the engine is also perfectly aligned as far as I can tell.. Unfortunately still popping very badly when the chain is turning (whether the clutch is in or not)

    I've pretty much reached the limits of my debugging abilities at this point.

    One final point I noticed was without the cable on, if I held the lever in while turning it, I definately felt the pop through the lever as I turned the wheel.

    Could it be a bad bearing maybe? The bucking bar seems to be working fine. Or maybe something to do with the internals of the clutch. I tried to get in there but would have no idea how.
     
  12. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    this grinding n crunching sounds like the bearing is chipped, shattered, or just not there....? just a lone lil bearing it is...

    more... the shaft bearings?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  13. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    Hmm, I think you might be onto something with that, Head. I've decided to buckle and im buying a whole new clutch kit to replace the bucking bar, bearing, and clutch crank, as well as the cable and return spring and heatshield and we'll see how that goes.

    Can anyone advise me as to why this may have occurred, as im trying to work the kinks out so that I can avoid constantly spending so much ****ed money on the thing.

    Seems like every other week riding it I have to replace something. Fixing/maintaining I have no problems with but at this point im well past the $500 mark for money spent on the thing (not including about $500 on tools as well) and its still consistently breaking down. Seems a shame to me that there isn't an entirely alternative design out there or something that cost a little more but wasn't so... chinese "quality".
     
  14. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Mike, it sounds like you might possibly have a broken clutch return spring. (Hard to get at - the cases need to be split.)
    There's a return spring with the rebuild kit.
    Let us know how you go.
     
  15. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    ooooh, thats a good one i didnt think of!

    why would the bearing shatter if it is the bearing, and why would the spring snap if its the spring?

    or whatever else it could be? mainly cus its of questionable quality, ones bound to fail sooner or later...
     
  16. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    Ok so.. update.

    Just got the repair kit, and the new cable etc etc, put in the new bucking bar and bearing first off, also slightly adjusted the angle of the engine back to 90 degrees. still pops - only while going forwards.

    Took the side case off where the drive cog is that hooks upto the big wheel on the opposite side to the chain drive cog. Noticed that the biggest cog being driven from the smaller one was.. really all over the place. when it 'popped' it was going on a weird angle.. etc etc.. unsure how i'd tighten this up..

    Unsure as well as to how to remove the central piece if that is indeed what has broken. Also: Could this have anything to do with the flower nut adjustment?
     
  17. Stan4d

    Stan4d Banned

    Sounds like a woodruff key sheared, then the gear spun till it became loose, then it bound up........which if it happened while running at any speed, I am unsure of the cascade effect of damage.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2010
  18. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    Sorry, could you provide any more details as im unfamiliar with this part :)

    Also, if anyone knows of a good tutorial for completely replacing the clutch - I had a quick search around but couldn't find one within the first few pages of results.

    I figure if I replace the whole thing, I can't really go wrong?

    Still curious if it could be related to the flower nut adjustment. I've tried to take a video, but I only have my phone which wasn't really useful in either documenting the gears movement or the sound even..

    Cheers guys!
     
  19. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

  20. Hajuu

    Hajuu Member

    Not exactly what I had in mind :p

    Thanks though.

    EDIT: To be clear what I need is a step by step clutch repair tutorial. Im really not that greatly techically minded but techically capable :p
    I'm sure there's one on here somewhere i'm probably just not much good at searching.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2010
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