Concealment of a 2 stroke

Discussion in '2-Stroke Engines' started by pucksterpete, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. pucksterpete

    pucksterpete Member

    Do you think a welding blanket, made of flame retardant flax canvas and a working temperature of: 1000° Fahrenheit, 537° Celsius, would work to conceal 66cc HT 2 stroke engine on the frame of the bike? Would the blanket be able to handle the Temps of the engine? How about some other kind heat resistant light weight fabric or another idea?

    Thanks,

    Pete
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2015

  2. Fulltimer

    Fulltimer Member

    That would over heat the motor....boom!

    Terry
     
  3. professor

    professor Active Member

    This was done last year by a member, he made a set of side curtains which masked the engine.
    I use a grid over which I attach black shopping bags from a local store. Mine is a 4 stroke but the principle is the same. You must have air able to circulate from front to back of the engine and bottom to top. No problem-but, the sound level is needed to be addressed also.
     
  4. pucksterpete

    pucksterpete Member

    Do you think if I was able to use a breathable heat resistant fabric I would have enough air flow for the engine to keep cool?
     
  5. professor

    professor Active Member

    No. I have the idea you want to envelope it.
    You must have decent airflow and even a furnace filter wrapped around the engine would have resistance to cooling at low speeds. There must be an open area at the front to allow air to go thru the fins and an open area for the heated air to exit.
    A covering on the sides only would be fine.
     
  6. skrufryder

    skrufryder Member

    Why do you want to hide it?
     
  7. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    really...why hide it?
    show it off man!
     
  8. poo poo pipe

    poo poo pipe New Member

    use plates of polished stainless steel on the sides, open front and rear ,the plates will reflect the surroundings. It sometimes is done in magic tricks.
     
  9. pucksterpete

    pucksterpete Member

    I would love to show it off, but the French want me to have plates, registration & insurance. For me to have all these things I must have a "certificate of conformity" issued by "service des mines" and to get that, the bike must go through a series of test to prove road worthinesses (which will cost $$$), just like a car or motorcycle would. Because it has a motor, it can't be driven on the bike path, so must be driven on the street and for that, it must have lights (no problem), turn signals etc etc etc. Its just a BIG pain in the A S S here in France. They are basically classifying it as a moped. Even the Solex has all the same regulations. So, I just want to make it less noticeable from the street when I ride it on the bike path, so when the cops do go by they see me riding a bike and not have to do a double take if they were to see the motor.
     
  10. r.bradley

    r.bradley New Member

    I have the same problem here in the UK, I wanted to do the whole legit route but couldn't find an insurance company that would cover a motored bicycle! Instead I'm Getting myself a friction drive kit and partially covering the engine so from a distance it looks like a pannier and rack! I also found a company that sell various heat absorbing/reflecting fabrics that I'm using to line the inside of the bag. As long as you leave a gap at front and back for airflow it should be fine.

    http://www.agriemach.com/default.php?cPath=0_7&osCsid=dcroht59sjhmot3n28e5nub7s2[/url]

    Hope this helps
     
  11. professor

    professor Active Member

    Hiding the engine is fairly easy, hiding the sound of it is not so easy.
    There was a post on sound control here somewhere. Kill the intake roar, deaden the fin ringing, deaden the clutch housing (if there is one) and extra muffling on the exhaust. Oh yea, hide that gastank.
     
  12. pucksterpete

    pucksterpete Member


    Thank you very much for the links
     
  13. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Fin ringing noise was easy to deal with. I went to the office supply store and paid $.99 for a bag of mechanical pencil eraser inserts, which are solid rubber. Then I wedged some of them between the fins on the cylinder. Ringing stopped. Thank you to whomever it was that posted that idea a couple of years ago.

    My HT engine was behind the seat post on my trike conversion, and I made a pair of side skirts from sheet aluminum to fit the widened rear triangle from top to bottom - used some spring clips to hold them on. Those I lined with spray adhesive adhered thin foam rubber - leaving air flow front and rear, bottom as well, wide open. I took the exhaust straight down off the front of the cylinder and under the engine, with the muffler mounted below my jackshaft and running back to behind the 3 speed Shimano shifter I used as a mid-drive, and the exhaust pipe turned to face the ground below and behind the trike rear-end. My set-back seat post and tractor seat hid the engine from above quite nicely.

    I was not really concerned about concealment, as I had a prescription for the MB as a "handicapped assistance device". I just don't like loud noises much, and frankly, 2 stroke engines irritate me no end when loud.

    Insulative/reflective coated heat blanket type material strikes me as a remarkably bad idea - these engines run pretty warm in the open, and a reflective material will just exacerbate that.
     
  14. sideshowbob

    sideshowbob Member

    you can get papers just jump thru the hoops

    I live in Oregon and it is the same here; it is considered a moped but with no manufacturere's certifitace of origin I have to do a lot of documentation with reciepts and notarized statements of fact but it is possible. In the US progressive insurance and a few others like dairyland insurance (motorcycle specialy insurance) will insure them just tell them its a moped of ___c.c.'s and don't say you built it (do it on the internet). Getting a VIN # here was a challenge but possible so it can be titled and registered. In Oregon I am looking at several hundred dollars for title, registration, tags and insurance but it is worth it to tell the cops to **** off and ride on the street. One thing I noticed is that in many places they will let you register it and get plates if it has ever been registered somewhere else; so find a place where registration is easy (Arizona?) then tell the MV office you moved and hand them the old previous registration and they may go for it. If all else fails just try making fake the paperwork and try to get them to accept that and register it and give you tags. You may try Poland or Hungary many folks ride them and sell them in both of those countries. The EU is small, **** go to andora or manaco and try it there. good luck and let your motorbicycle flag fly don't hide it just play the game with the beaurocrats. Someone will give you papers somewhere just don't give up.
     
  15. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    oh, if only id had the money for machinery years ago! now im getting myself sorted though :)



    cant recall where he got them but an older man i knew(rip) had a pair of beeeyoootiful Vtwin oscillators. steam engines. same belt drive as the electric scooters. roughly half a horse each at 4500rpm at 60psi.

    something id like to recreate... maybe larger...then the option of steam or compressed air. quiet as :) plenty of torque, little or no reduction needed...

    but for you...hmmm.

    an option is water cooling. seriously. the cylinder is alloy, easily welded by someone with the right equipment... remove all but the upper and lower fins, and form up some sheet to wrap around. some fittings for hose top and bottom, then find a welder...

    wouldnt cost too much if you did the fabrication yourself. alloys easy :) unlike the stainless i did today...

    the head might need doing too. this could be trickier.

    radiator? go to a car wrecker and get a heater core. mount it in the breeze, and there you are! use the thermo siphon principle.


    then a few mods to the exhaust, to really muffle it, and box the whole lot in...
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  16. pucksterpete

    pucksterpete Member

    I have come across an idea I think might work. They are called ATV Tank Saddlebags. See pics. Might be a little long, but I can hem them up. This way the tank and the cylinder head would be hidden from view. I can put some kind of extension horizontally at the bottom of the frame to keep the saddles from touching the engine and apply some kind of adhesive heat shield on the inside backing of the saddle to protect it. I would still have enough air flow from the front, back & underneath the engine. I can use the bags for storage as well, their initial use. What do you think?

    Pete
     

    Attached Files:

  17. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Workable. Rather than hem the bags and decrease their size, I'd do my adjusting at the saddle strap that lays over the tank. Major concern is going to be - will they get in the way of the pedals?

    Also, go to a fabric shop and get some aluminized synthetic fabric, then use fabric cement applied as a thin coat to cover the areas you want to apply it to. Much easier than sewing, and holds very well. Makes an excellent reflecive surface on the side toward the engine.
     
  18. pucksterpete

    pucksterpete Member

    I should be getting the bags this week & see what happens. Def. will get some aluminized synthetic fabric for the back sides of the bags. I will post some pics when I get it figured out. Thanks all for the suggestions.

    Pete
     
  19. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho Active Member

    so what you are saying is that you would rather risk getting caught trying to conceal the motor rather than just pay the fees to make it legal?
    seems to me that you would get in more trouble by trying to conceal it.
    if they catch you with it, and you are obviously trying to hide it, i think that would make them madder than if you just left the engine in plain view, and played dumb when they stop you.

    man, i am so glad that i don't have to worry about this kind of b.s. where i live.
    I can literally ride my bike(s) all over the place without plates, or insurance.
    i was told by several cops who stopped to check out my bike(s), that all i need to do is follow the rules of the road and i'll be fine.
    I have had several cops stop just to look at my bike(s) because they thought they were cool.
    one is 49 c.c. and the other is 80 c.c.

    no problems like that here at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  20. pucksterpete

    pucksterpete Member

    All I am trying to do is make the bike less noticeable of having a engine. I plan on riding this on the bike paths within the area I live, not the street. The paths are close to the street. If the cops see an engine, they will more than likely stop me. If they don't see it, they probably won't stop me. If they do stop me I can just play dumb, like you said. I would rather not hide it and be able to have a license for it. But, the problem here in France is they classify this bike as a moped 50cc or less, from what I have read online and require the bike to go through many tests to be approved to ride on/off road. To operate this thing legally this is what needs to be done:


    Dear Pete,

    First of all thank you for contacting Luxcontrol.

    The idea to homologate this kind of motor vehicle is very interesting but in fact very difficult to accomplish.

    Please find hereafter an exhaustive list of the several directives to fulfil if you want to homologate this motor vehicle:

    95/1/EC Maximum torque and maximum net power of engine
    97/24/EC (C7) Anti-tampering measures for mopeds and motorcycles
    97/24/EC (C6) Fuel tank
    95/1/EC Maximum design speed of vehicle
    93/93/EEC Masses and dimensions
    97/24/EC (C10) Trailer coupling devices
    97/24/EC (C5) Anti-air pollution measures
    97/24/EC (C1) Tyres
    93/14/EEC Braking system
    93/92/EEC Installation of lighting and light-signalling devices on the vehicle
    97/24/EC (C2) Lighting and light-signalling devices
    93/30/EEC Audible warning device
    93/94/EC Position for the mounting of rear registration plate
    97/24/EC (C8) Electromagnetic compatibility
    97/24/EC (C9) Sound level and exhaust system
    97/24/EC (C4) Rear-view mirror(s)
    97/24/EC (C3) External projections
    93/31/EEC Stand (except in the case of vehicles having three or more wheels)
    93/33/EEC Devices to prevent unauthorised use of the vehicle
    97/24/EC (12) Windows; windscreen wipers; windscreen washers; and so on
    93/32/EEC Passenger hand-hold for two-wheel vehicles
    97/24/EEC (C11) Anchorage points for safety belts and safety belts
    2000/7/EC Speedometer
    93/29/EEC Identification of controls, tell-tales and indicators
    93/34/EEC Statutory inscriptions

    Most of these tests have to be done in a laboratory e.g. pollution, Electromagnetic compatibility, fuel tank and maximum power of engine.

    In parallel all the components like for example horn, lights, tyres, etc. need to be single type approved.

    In addition to all the directives, you also need to be manufacturer of the vehicle and thus possess a World Manufacturer Code.

    Please find hereafter the link to the European Commission for the automotive industry, in order to give you an overview of the several directives to fulfil to get a European homologation:

    http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/automotive/documents/directives/motorbikes/index_en.htm

    As you can imagine, this all has a cost and for this kind of vehicle you should spend about 12000.-€, if every test passes the first time.

    For us, this make only make sense if you want to sell the motor vehicle.

    Perhaps you can contact UTAC in France and they can make a single national approval for less money.

    Remaining at your disposal for any further information

    Best regards,
    ---------------
    Here is a message I received from Don Grubee about it:

    Dear Armand;

    Sorry; our engines have no "Certificate of Homologation". Homologation does not appear in my American dictionary. Maybe has to do with a complete vehicle or in your case > Moped? Since you were the Moped manufacture maybe you can make your own Certificate of Homologation. Sorry we cannot be of more help. We don't import to the EU countries because of the strange laws there.

    Cheers from China;
    Don and Angel
    ----------------

    So, this is why I am going through all of this. All I can say to the police if I get stop is, I built the bike and I am just testing it and its in the process of getting approved. Back in the States, Nevada, Illinois, Wisconsin. I had no problem at all riding a bike this. c'est la vie
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2015
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