DIY Friction Drive : Lowracer Style

Discussion in 'Friction Drive' started by lowracer, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. lowracer

    lowracer Member

    Since dismantling the pusher trailer I recently built, this new project started out as a center engine mount using the jackshaft & pulleys to power the friction drive roller. I didnt like the jackshaft & felt like it ate up too much power w/ additional friction, so I simply mounted a BMP roller onto a Staton 1/2" double bearing clutch driver unit. There is definitely much less friction running it directly without the added complexity of the pulleys, pillow blocks, jackshaft & mounting hardware, & so far tire wear seems low (no black dust all over the place). I think the Maxxis Hookworm 2.5 is a good tire for friction drives since its so HUGE. The whole mount took me half a day to build & has a nice quick release to the inside for the up & down roller adjustment. I'll leave it like this for a bit. Maybe beef it up with additional supports, maybe install the expansion chamber & a single speed conversion for the cassette & probably a 32T front chainring instead of the 46T on there now...
    -Lowracer-
     

    Attached Files:


  2. noisydad

    noisydad New Member

    Nice job - less is more.
     
  3. lowracer

    lowracer Member

    *** Switched it to V-Belt Drive ***

    Well,
    I'm back to my old ways again, not wanting to leave well enough alone.
    I like friction drive, in fact I took one of my MB's to work yesterday (around 60 miles of riding). This is the one with the Subaru Robin EH035 driving a BMP friction kit. The thing performed flawlessly & got around 135-145 mpg's. Just needs more power to drive thru the wind and to cruise at over 30 mph without being at WOT the whole time.
    I didnt much like the DIY friction set-up on this bike with this engine, so I went & converted it to my tried & true v-belt drive. It gets out of its own way in a hurry now & easily cruises at 30 mph at half throttle.
    Here are a few pics...enjoy
    I'll probably install the expansion chamber after I do some more test drives.
    -Lowracer-
     

    Attached Files:

  4. lowracer

    lowracer Member

    I took the bike in its current configuration (v-belt, rear drive, rear mount) for a ride today to make sure its set up correctly & made a few adjustments. This is a sweet set-up & has great acceleration right off the line & pulls strong to an impressive top end.
    Hopefully I wont get a wild hair & will leave it like this now for awhile.
    I tried to mount the expansion chamber today but wont be able to without modifying it with some flex pipe to clear the frame. I'll stick with the little exhaust can until I get motivated to change it. Performance suffers a little with the small can, but isn't as bad as you would imagine.
    I'm still in love with these little high performance Cag engines & although I started busting clutch springs I can't imagine going back to just 1.6hp full time...
    I may give this new MB a workout this week by taking it to work one day & putting about 60 miles or so on it. I gotta come up with a name for it too I guess...?
    -Lowracer-
     
  5. rawly old

    rawly old Member

    Say Low,
    A while back someone mentioned a performance carb for a PF-4000, but
    I can't quite remember the number. Was it WYK-58 or WYK- 85??
     
  6. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    WYK-58.Gotta luv this diy GEBE.Have to see if there's a savings in the drive unit between Staton's and Golden Eagles.May be able to
    save a few $$.
     
    rawly old likes this.
  7. rawly old

    rawly old Member

    Thx Grem, wasn't sure. I keep bouncing back & forth twixt
    friction & my diy belt drive. They both have advantages.
    I'll go back to the belt as soon as the wet season returns.
     
  8. lowracer

    lowracer Member

    rawly,
    I dont recall info for a performance carb for the Tanaka 40cc.
    I have a Tanaka 47r now & it has a performance carb & is much noisier than my 40cc.
    I installed the same mufflers on both & a meter of silicone exhaust hose, but its still just as noisy as before (so its coming from the intake side of things).
    I wouldn't change the carb. I get much better fuel economy with the 40cc (150 vs 99 mpg's).
    I have gone full circle & no longer use v-belt drive or friction drive on my current machine.
    It is a dual engine, all wheel drive, chain drive w/freewheel (no engine braking)...
    Clutches should last much longer now (I'd rather replace brake pads than clutch shoes) & no more broken clutch springs.
    -lowracer-
     

    Attached Files:

  9. rawly old

    rawly old Member

    That is just freaky lookin'! It can't remotely be street legal?
    Low, ya got to much time on yur hands....really.
    The reason I asked about the carb is that I have an old HF 52
    that I think would work well with that carb, or at least I'd have
    a spare for the tanaka.
    Something I've discovered to save clutch springs, the holes
    they mount to are drilled straight thru & have square edges.
    I use a diamond tipped needle bit to round off the edges of
    the holes to match the curve of the spring. That way the
    edge doesn't cut into the spring.
    I get those bits cheap from 'Widget Supply.com' in assortments
    of 20. They actually dental bits. You do have a dremel?
     
  10. rawly old

    rawly old Member

    Oh say, Grem & Low,
    I really like the belt setup above; it's very similar
    to mine. One thing I found having used both is that
    a 3L fractional hp. belt works better than a v-belt
    because it's more flexible. That or a cogged 3L
    if you can find the right timing gear pulley.
    Also, the more acute an angle from the pulley
    to the sheave, the better the pulley grips
    Which leads me to the question where'd you
    get yur pulley,Low, what size?
     
  11. lowracer

    lowracer Member

    I got the pulley at my local ACE Hardware store. Its a 1.5"
    The blue bike at the start of this thread ended up being converted to a DAX friction drive unit w/Tanaka 32cc & sold.
    I still have one friction drive machine in the garage & it rips.
    -Lowracer-
     

    Attached Files:

  12. rawly old

    rawly old Member

    Okay,
    Half way thru my last response I noticed the cogged belt.
    I thought maybe you'd put a timing pulley on there.
    That looks like a pretty mean little scooter. Don't tell me
    you've dismantled the 'Beast'?
     
  13. Rockoteer

    Rockoteer New Member

    Lowracer, Rockoteer here. Where did you get your belt and is your drive pulley simply another 26" wheel and if so, how in the world did you mount it?
     
  14. rawly old

    rawly old Member

    Rocko,
    Where else... Vbelt supply.com. They have any length you'll need. I
    recommend 3l or 3v unless you plan on a cogged primary pulley. No
    worry, they' got cogged belts as well. They are pretty cheap too.
    I think Low is using a 26" rim there; I use a 24" with a 3/4"
    special gripping primary I made myself. I have loads of low end
    power for hills @ 5500 max torque , and at 15mph I can effortlessly
    pedal assist steeper grades. With my tanaka pf4000 top spd is
    only 25 mph, but that's faster than I like to ride anyway.
    Living in the soggy Northwest, I've 2 bikes, one friction for summer
    and the belt for the other 8 mos.
     
    Rockoteer likes this.
  15. lowracer

    lowracer Member

  16. rawly old

    rawly old Member

    Cool Low,
    Much simpler to mount the 26" than what I had to go thru
    to mount my 24"
     
  17. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    Hey Rawly, you had the diy gebe with the "belleville washers" pulley?How did you go about mounting the 24" to the 26"?I'm wanting to experiment with my gebe system next time I need gear/sheave/belt change, that stuff is expensive and it'd be nice to buy my parts from the local hardware store.
     
  18. rawly old

    rawly old Member

    Yeah,
    Still using the incised bellevilles. made the shaft from an 8" x 5/8" bolt
    necked down to 3/8" 24 thread for the clutch bell with the large threads
    on the other end. What I changed was the 3/4" steel conduit spacer that
    goes between the washers to form my pulley. I cut it down to 1/8" so
    to really grab a 3v belt. Geez, it works great.
    For the 24" sheave I notched the rim,(this has to be done extremely
    precisely), to fit the 18 spokes of the drive side to a depth of two
    thicknesses of the spoke past the inner edge of the rim. I cut alu
    tabs to fit between the spoke and the inner edge fastening them
    with small self-tapping screws. I used an alu threshold plate to
    cut the tabs from with tin snips. Other than the 24" rim, I got
    everything else at the hardware store for under $20.
    The hardest part was necking down the bolt by hand with a
    file before the tool rental guy threaded it for me.
    Now I don't know what to do with myself. Between the
    belt drive and the custom friction roller, I have 2 bikes
    that finally perform exactly the way I want 'em.

    P.S. Low's system for a 26" sheave is incredibly less labor intensive.
     
  19. agcat111

    agcat111 New Member

    The pulley for the belt?

    The pulley on eh bask wheel, is that just another bicycle rim? if so how isatached to the other rim. How do you keep the belt from slipping if it is another bicycle rim?
     
  20. rawly old

    rawly old Member

    Agcat,
    It is indeed another bike rim. the belt doesn't slip on the rim
    because it's pulled against so much surface of the rim. It could
    slip at the primary pulley if the belt doesn't match or there is
    too little tension.
    The way I attach a 24" rim is explained in my post above ^.
    Lowracer has a much simpler method for using a 26" rim
    detailed in the link shown in his post to Rockoteer above ^.
    The difference in the 2 systems is the ratio achieved.
    his, with a 1 1/2" pulley & 26" rim is about 17:1, ideal
    for a lighter rider or mild terrain.
    Mine uses a 3/4" pulley with a 24" rim, 26:1 for
    steeper terrain, heavier rider.
     
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