Drive ring question

Discussion in 'Rack Mounted Engines' started by shawnshank, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. shawnshank

    shawnshank Member

    What is the difference between the GEBE drive ring and the whizzer drive ring (other than the obvious: one being plastic and the other being metal).

    I use the velocity rim on my GEBE kit which has 105 gauge spokes. Does the whizzer rim have larger gauge spokes? I assume it would need thicker spokes for the extra power of the whizzer. If not, why have two different drive rings? Also, are they both the same diameter and both notched for the belt?
     

  2. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    To the best of my knowledge and these figures are not exact, but I think the GEBE ring is 17 inches in diameter and the whizzer is 15. But don't hold me to that.
     
  3. augidog

    augidog Banned

    shawn', the whizzer "sheave" is a standard v-belt pulley, is metal, and is anchored to the spokes with screws and keepers...the Golden Eagle "drive-ring" is more like a large gear to match the toothed belt, is made of a nylon composite, & snaps onto the spokes.

    so, they aren't "interchangeable" as relates to drive-train, but...

    about wheels: either component can be used with a variety of wheels and spokes, ie the sheave would fit the gebe-velocity wheel, the drive-ring would install on a whizzer wheel. a brand-name wheel isn't a requirement, they both do well on a basic 12G freewheel or coaster-brake wheel, which is always a good MB'ing minimum-standard to shoot for, no matter what your drive-line style...imo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
  4. shawnshank

    shawnshank Member

    I spoke to a very nice guy at Whizzer and here is what he said.

    The spokes on the whizzer are 12g there are nine clips on the sheave (drive ring) which attach to the spokes and the sheave fits on standard 36 spoke wheels.
    The sheave is 15" in diameter.

    I was just curious whether or not the metal sheave could be used with the GEBE kit and if so, why they don't use it inplace of the plastic ring with no clips.
    I know the engine gear would need to be replaced with a fly wheel of some sort but I don't know if the belt length is the same of not.
     
  5. seanhan

    seanhan Member

    I think the

    GEBE ring is super strong if thats what your worried about , mine has not had any issues at all with 700+ miles so far, The wheel has been another issue, But now I have the 105G wheel and I think my wheel problems are over.
    The gebe ring is so strong that i just cant see one breaking even with major abuse. also it wont rust.
     
  6. AndyT

    AndyT Member

    I agree. The GEBE drive ring is very well engineered, and is very tough. For that matter, the whole kit is well designed. IMO there would be no reason to consider a metal drive ring. That would keep you from using the nice toothed Kevlar belt. A "V" would just suck power.
     
  7. shawnshank

    shawnshank Member

    I thought since the whizzer engine is capable of 60+ mph that the metal ring would be stronger. The only reason I am curious about this is because I am searching for a more powerful engine to use with my gebe drive ring setup and I want to make sure it can handle the extra power. I want a frame mount engine that will get me in the 45 mph range. That is as fast as I want to go.
    Any ideas?

    SS
     
  8. cpuaid

    cpuaid Member

    has anyone successfully removed a GEBE ring and re-installed on another wheel? if so, what would be the best method for removal. i'm afraid of trying just in case i crack the ring or make the little spoke openings wider. Also, the re-installed ring might not be as well secured as during the original installation, after all, it's only made of ABS composite.
     
  9. AndyT

    AndyT Member

    shawnshank,

    I think your GEBE setup can work for you as is. From my experience and from watching what others have tried, you need to be careful with your engine choice. The made in China Chung Yang 46cc or GP460 engine is too powerful and "peaky", doesn't have a smooth power band, and often poor reliability. I have one and it blew an engine seal on the first ride. Thr jerky power delivery causes belt issues and is hard on bike components as well. The clutches also engage at a crazy high RPM. I have a Goped Riot (sit down mini bike) that I have mounted a slightly modified Zenoah G43L engine on. It pulls well down low in the revs, has a great clutch, and is very smooth. I have the Riot geared for about 32 mph and it will climb any hill in my area with bogging. It could easily handle higher gearing. The G43L will hit about 12,000 rpm, and is built like a tank. Redmax used them in garden equipment, so you are looking at Tanaka-like reliability.

    The G43L engine I have is from a Goped GSR40 TSI scooter. The cylinder for this model was mildly ported by Trevor Simpson. I added a fully adjustable carb, and otherwise it's stock. Since it hits 12,000 rpm, where my Tanaka 32 does about 7500 rpm, without a gearing change my speed would increase from 30mph to 45mph. I used a gear calculator and it says at 12,000 rpm it should be doing 48mph.

    A stock G43L engine (no porting) should be a bit more powerful than a Tanaka 32 or Subaru 35 off the line and the extra revs would take you to the speed you want. The stock engine is rated at 2hp, but that's a conservative rating. These engines are easily modified, parts are available and you can get pipes and other HP stuff. These engines are not available new, so you have to pick one up off ebay, or off a Goped forum, which is where I got mine a few months ago. I paid $150 for the complete motor (in excellent shape), and purchased a new carb for $40 to get it running. These engine don't come with a gas tank. so you need to mount a Goped 1.5L (50 oz) tank to your lower mount strap below the engine. It's easy to do; I have done this and use it to carry more fuel for my Tanaka.
     
  10. shawnshank

    shawnshank Member

    I have the tanaka 40 cc engine and it runs like a charm...I love it. I have been clocked at 34mph and I have yet to install my performace pack on it which is supposed to add an additional 5 mph to the top end.
    However, the way the bike was built, the weight tends to shift toward the rear tire so with me on the bike and the engine on the rear, the front tire easily comes off the ground. I haven't had a problem with loss of traction on front tire as of yet but I'm afraid it's only a matter of time (especially once the weight and power from the power pack in added into the mix).
    If I could frame mount this setup, I'd be all set. Any suggestions?



     
  11. augidog

    augidog Banned

    cpuaid: i've swapped a ring or two onto various wheels, without a hitch...my original ring wound up on a few different wheels for countless total miles, and is still a suitable spare...the curved end of the 4-in-1 is for removing the ring from the spokes.

    other ringstuff: while the stock slot on the ring is molded for a 14G spoke, and it's suggested that you drill the slot slightly larger for a 12G, we've been snapping it right onto 12G spokes as is...rings stays true & tight. if you ever wanna swap it you won't be able to go back to 14G. kinda like sloppy seconds. but it can still be used on another 12G wheel no problem.

    with a multi-positional 2-stroke (i love my tanaka 40cc) you can scootch that engine way forward & under the seat for best c-o-g, unless you have v-brakes, in which case you can only get the belt so close to the brake mounting lugs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  12. AndyT

    AndyT Member

    shawnshank, if you post some pics of your bike we can get a better idea of what you are your problem is and how to solve it.
     
  13. augidog

    augidog Banned

    top speed isn't the issue...ring & belt can handle any top-speed these engines can toss at them, and more.

    speedometers here show "max-spd's" approaching 50mph (long downhills of course, we don't have the engines to do that on the level) and the last thing you worry about at 45+mph is the golden eagle drive-train. install it correctly and it'll be sewing-machine-smooth at any speed the rest of your bike can handle.

    yup, we're gearheads, but let's not pretend that the drive-belt is anything more than what GEBE claims it is...part of an engine-assist kit. it's durable alright, but it can only be so wide to thread the gap between the tire and the stay of most bikes, so it's weakness is sudden-serious-torque.

    i can pull off from a deadstop with the PF40/13T, but i can't afford to abuse belts (or clutch-shoes), so i pedal. "man & machine" is one of the wonders of this system, tho, because pedaling & throttling works just fine from a stop, and neither i nor the engine/clutch have to work too hard. my top speed averages 30-32mph. considering how much i'm hauling i'm ok with that.

    our "stock" tanakas (which 3 of us have been riding for 2 years, basic intake & exhaust tweaks) put out a "usable" 7-8k peak for us, 33cc or 40cc...the 40 being a real workhorse in the lower range, the 33 being a rocketsled when it begins to peak. what speeds we manage to reach actually depend more on the obvious factors like weight, resistance, gear-size, and of course opinion...

    den's tweaked a PF40 to do 16k, he says that 45mph was when he quit finding out how fast it is.

    you can strap just about anything on there, but i suggest for monster-speeds you gear-down & pursue monster-rpm's instead of monster-torque...that's a slightly different approach than most expect, but it's the reality of this particular system...in my opinion, of course :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  14. AndyT

    AndyT Member

    That goes right along with my post about the Zenoah G43L engine. It will do over 12K stock and it has about the same power as a Tanaka 40. Wind it out on flat ground and you'll hit 45+ with the standard 13T gear. I don't think I need to go that fast, not to mention it's not legal here in Tennessee to go over 30 on a motorized bike.

    I may give the G43L a try one of these days though. I have an extra engine waiting to be fired up. I mentioned it to Julie at GEBE and she said "bolt that sucker on there and you'll really be flying". They used to sell Zenaoh's and I'm sure they have tested this one, but the 12k rev limit would have made it way too fast. Gear it down and it would tear up spokes and belts.
     
  15. shawnshank

    shawnshank Member

    O.k....a gearhead I am not so your losing me at times. Sloppy seconds I understand. That is a good analogy. lol
    That said...I'm not sure if there is an answer to my question in here. Can the tanaka 40 gebe be mounted in the frame or is the belt not long enough? If it is a matter of the brakes on the rear of the bike I can work around that by finding the right bike.
    The reason why I am asking is not only for c.o.g. reasons but also for asthetics.
    I want to build something that looks more like a boardtrack in the future so I really want a frame mount setup. However, I love the GEBE 40 cc tanaka kit and want to use it but I can't find anywhere on here that says whether or not it can be frame mounted and if so, how to do so.
    If it cannot, can you suggest a frame mount engine kit that will get me the same speed and reliability of the tanaka 40cc gebe kit?
    FYI: I prefer a two stroke over 4 stroke.

    Thanks
    SS


     
  16. augidog

    augidog Banned

    i see i got the basic questions answered, tho...analogies are good ;)

    if you want to know how to use a stock 2-stroke utility engine inframe with a gebe belt...fabrication is the only way i see it happening. there is no golden eagle inframe option.

    so, my bike has extended stays and i "could" place my engine under the seat & directly in front of the rear tire, but pedal-interference is an issue, it will be the same with your in-frame tanaka (wider cranks? yuck, imo, unless a quality 1-pc)...belt-length is another limiting factor...but, mechanically, yes it could be done. in my imaginary build, with your asthetics in mind, it would be an in-frame tanaka to a jackshaft on the seatpost that drives the belt.

    if you use any belt, then i see the possibility of the whizzer sheave being a handy item, you can find v-belt pulleys you could adapt to the clutch output, and you can easily find belts long enuff for that rig. i suspect a 40cc may require some serious reduction to drive it, tho.

    the reasons we get so much speed out of so little displacement are the simplicity, lightness, and minimal drag of the golden eagle setup.

    sorry, i don't know of a kit that gives you what you're looking for, but that doesn't mean it's not out there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
  17. AndyT

    AndyT Member

    2 relpies are better than none. I see augidog posted while I was still typing.

    The non-gearhead answer is no. There would be no way of mounting the engine inside the frame without some major fabrication. Then you would have problems with the length of the belt. I have seen some custom in-frame installations with a Tanaka that use a chain drive. When mounted in the frame the engine is really too wide for use with pedals.

    The only in-frame engines available that I know of are the Chinese "Happy Time" type. You already know about the quality.

    COG issues and pulling wheelies doesn't appear as a common problem with GEBE bikes. I can corner on my GEBE bike just as well as I can on my 18 lb road bike, and the front wheel stays planted on the ground just fine. I am 6' 2" and have long legs. For the GEBE, I use an XL frame and have the seat post jacked way up, so my legs are fully extended with my feet flat on the pedals. My COG is way high, but it has no effect on handling.

    I can understand wanting to build a cool looking bike. As a suggestion, you could always fix any issues that you have with your GEBE, use it for long rides, and build a Happy Time to play around with and customize.

    I'd love to see a pic of your GEBE bike.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
  18. shawnshank

    shawnshank Member

    Thanks for your hlep guys I appreciate it. I guess a HT it will have to be. At least I'll save some money.

    Here is a pic of my current ride. The seat post is a suntaur which sort of acts like a sea saw when you hit the bumps (so sweet if you can find one) which is why I had to give the motor a little distance from the seat. Unfortunately, when it rocks back under my weight or when I hit a bump, it shifts my center of gravity even further toward the back wheel. I'll just deal with it. I love the post it's like riding on a cloud.

    Here are a couple pics of my bike.

    my bike 1.JPG
    my bike.JPG



     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
  19. augidog

    augidog Banned

    shawn'...that tanaka can be rotated 90deg on the mount for a much better fit behind/under the seat...my opinion is you'd like the change.
     
  20. AndyT

    AndyT Member

    That a nice looking bike there. I looked at the Electra before I bought my Novara. You seem to have done a nice job building your bike.

    As augidog says, you can rotate your engine to look like mine and that will help with the weight. You can also get more gas in the tank with it rotated.

    Here are some pics of my build:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2009
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