Dual Drive Hub

Discussion in 'Spare Parts, Tools & Product Developement' started by DuctTapedGoat, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    So, first the paraphrased summary, then the optionally read rant, and lastly, the materials I have been acquiring through getting screwed over and being "misinformed" (lied to through ommission).

    Where can I buy a "dual drive" hub? The right side would have to have standard direction threads, and the left side must have reverse direction threads, both with standard thread pitch and diameter.

    :eek: :::::<Optionally Read Rant>::::: :eek:

    I got screwed over by some jackwagon ("boygofast") on eBay for what was claimed to be a rear axle for motorized bikes. Well, as luck would have it, it's been over 45 days since I bought it (had to save the money to get it laced up, buy good spokes, etc). I finally saved cash to get everything I needed for this new rocking wheel setup, and the bike shop says they can't fit their standard sized spokes through the spoke holes on the hub. So I tell them to find spokes that will fit and I'll buy them instead of the standard ones. I get a call 3 days later stating that they couldn't find any spokes that large, and that they could just order me a hub that served the same purpose. I pick up the hub, everything is looking fine... until I throw on the threaded sprocket. They gave me a flip flop hub (standard direction threading on both sides), which COMPLETELY destroys the purpose of getting this hub. I am such a huge supporter of the true moped, but I am so against the way they tell you to install the sprocket, it does nothing but kill wheels. I thought I had finally found a solution, but alas, roadblock on the path to progress. Anyways, as I began looking around online, I realize that for spokes and nipples alone I would be looking at 150+ dollars for the spokes it calls for. I'm not sure where to go now to get this done - I don't want to buy a wheel that's going to die in 5 months building it by the book, I KNOW that this setup is truely the way to go if you're operating a motorized bike, but why is it that I can't find hardly any information on it?

    This is the eBay listing where I got the 32H Steel Hub W/36T Sprocket.

    HTML:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170532714665
    :eek: :::::</Optionally Read Rant>::::: :eek:

    I guess I'm on the hunt for a solution now, I have an aluminum flip flop hub laced to an aluminum wheel with 14G steel spokes, a steel "dual drive" hub with removable bearing races, a 12 tooth right handed freewheel sprocket (pedalside), a southpaw 36 tooth freewheel sprocket (chaindrive side), and a rather lacking budget.

    Given the parts that I have, what do you think I should do/what can I do/who can help me at least get on the right track?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010

  2. NBP MotorSports

    NBP MotorSports New Member

    So...I take that this isn't the hub to buy because its flip-flop, spoke gauge?
    I was going to buy 2 of them, one for the front. Then iI was going to put both sprockets on the rear for my cruzer.
     
  3. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    How a flip flop hub works, and how a "dual drive" hub works.

    If you're referring to the eBay posting, then that isn't the one to buy due to the unnatural spoke size (due to the cost of high gauge spokes, nipples, and rims). If you had a rim that could handle 10-12G spokes, and 64 10-12G spokes, then by all means, go ahead and get it.

    If you're referring to the one that I received from the local bike shop, they gave me a flip flop hub. A flip flop hub is designed for bikes which have no shifters, and only one sprocket on the pedal side in the back. If you ever wanted to change gears, you could take off the wheel, flip it over and use your other sprocket from the other side. The reason this is possible is that both sides of the hub are right handed threads. If you were to use a flip flop hub for your motor's chain drive, when your motor tries to accelerate it will unscrew the sprocket from the hub.

    That's why you need right handed threads on the right side of the hub, and left handed threads on the left side of the hub, so that you can tighten each side down whether you're pedaling or using the motor.


    EDIT :

    I am curious why you would want to put that hub in the front... the only reason you would EVER put a rear wheel in the front would be for a second flip flop wheel if you wanted to have 4 possible gears with you at all times for whatever reason.

    Are you thinking about buying two so you have both sprockets? You can buy sprockets individually for 15 bucks a piece elsewhere. Also, the sprockets have freewheel ratchets, so you could tighten it on the left side of the hub (where it's supposed to go) but if you were to tighten it on the right side the freewheel would be ratcheting when you attempted to pedal.


    There is a proper way to do this with the dual drive hub, but I have yet to find a solution for under 200 bucks (total cost of all parts).
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  4. curtisfox

    curtisfox Member

    Staton-inc has the hubs
     
  5. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    curtisfox, you're a lifesaver!

    HTML:
    http://www.staton-inc.com/store/products/Rear_32_Hole_14_gage_Hub_Left_and_right_hand_threads-863-0.html
    That's exactly what I'm looking for! Pretty steep price for a hub, but I think I can make it happen and get mobile again. I recently moved 35 miles away from my hometown, and as luck has it, within 2 weeks the "sprocket and spoke sandwich" killed 6 spokes. It's a shame that the motor kits don't come with proper hubs, the "dual drive" hub is definitely the way to do it for major commuters and travelers.

    I was really hoping to find something 40$ cheaper, but it takes what it takes to get some things done right.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  6. curtisfox

    curtisfox Member

    That didn't take you long to find. Glad to help.
    I don't know why there is not a sprotet hub to weld right to the rear wheel hub,and just bolt the sprocket to it. As long as you have a clutch it would be the same as rag joint salid. I did that 50 years ago and it worked great.
     
  7. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    I gave up looking for something like that, the closest I could find was a clamshell adapter, but it seems like it's too close to the sandwiching concept I'm trying to avoid. Here's a link to that if anyone is interested in looking at it. I was unable to determine if it did some kind of "hub sandwich" or if it was just a more elaborate "spoke sandwich". It might prove useful to someone else, especially if they plan on changing their wheels out a few times.

    HTML:
    http://livefastmotors.com/Gas-Powered-Bicycle-Motor-Clamshell-Sprocket-Adapter-Small.html
     
  8. NBP MotorSports

    NBP MotorSports New Member

    The reason for two hubs. the rear is obvious, front duel disc brakes.
    Now for the back, why couldn't you flip the freewheel and mount it in the same direction as the motor side. I don't know, I haven't seen it yet, but looking at the picture, it looks like it is pressed in the sprocket mount. If you dont mind, can you take some detailed pics of it and email it to me? nbpracing@hotmail.com
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  9. NBP MotorSports

    NBP MotorSports New Member

  10. curtisfox

    curtisfox Member

    Yep both of them are much better then the rag joint.

    I gues I am just old fashion. I would just take a round flat and bore the center and drill it for sproket and weld it on the rear hub. If its needed to change wheels just make another.
     
  11. NBP MotorSports

    NBP MotorSports New Member

    Thanks for the pics.
    I don't see why you couldn't use it on either side. From the pictures, it looks like the thread goes all the way across the freewheel and you can bolt the sprocket on either side. As for the spokes, I wanted to use 8-10g. I think Im going to get it now. Thanks again.
     
  12. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    Good thinking with the front dual disc brakes, personally I don't do front brakes on them for the clutch lever reason.

    Well, I sent some pics, the hub pic shows that the hub has either 10-12G spoke holes, the one on the left is the one being sold, the one on the right is a 14G hub.

    The hub has right handed threads on the right side, left handed (reverse) threads on the left side. The freewheel sprocket that comes with it is designed to be on the chain drive and it as well is left handed (reverse) threads. When it is mounted to the hub, spinning CCW torques the wheel and spinning CW ratchets the freewheel.

    Now, the only way to put the sprocket on the right side with right handed threads, is to reverse the freewheel sprocket, putting the face of it away from the spokes. This changes the direction of the ratchet of the freewheel. There is only one configuration for the freewheel sprocket to go on the right side, and when it is put there the pedaling torque will cause it to click and ratchet. No matter what side of the freewheel you put the sprocket on, the ratchet is still only going to work in one direction, and the threads will only allow it to be screwed on in one direction.

    This is because the drive chain freewheel sprocket is southpaw, such as when people do lefthanded pedaling setups. You would have to get a standard right handed freewheel to go on the right side of the hub.

    But, if you were still wanting to get this axle I would be more than willing to sell it to you at a killer deal. Pm me if you want to talk about it.



    I was looking at the clamshells, and while they look interesting, my hub is too skinny to accept it. As well, that would be a fixed sprocket, while I'm definitely wanting to take advantage of the freewheel on the drive side. It's really surprising how much a difference it makes. I know this only from pedaling the MxB after the drive chain snapped - it's NOTHING like pedaling with the clutch held, and the perk about the sprocket is that you won't have to clutch pedal ever again. When the pedal drive is torquing, the freewheel on the drive sprocket is engaged.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  13. curtisfox

    curtisfox Member

    What kind of engine do you have. Pull start I hope?
     
  14. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    Nah, but it won't be an issue. My engine is broke in and fires up in 2-3 feet of compression start, so all I have to do is reverse start by walking it backwards, tossing a good final push and drop the clutch. Very good point though!
     
  15. curtisfox

    curtisfox Member

    Just wondering you cant pedal start with a free wheel on the rear.
    50 years ago I built on used a 1 1/2 hp Briggs belt drive ( V-plex clutch is like the front have of a CVT it pinched the belt ) clutch to about a 6" pully on the jack shaft. Just under the seat and the small rear wheel sproket behind it to the large pedal sproket filed out to fit the rear hub and welded it. Went about 25 then the next winter I took the engine and hhoned out the ports and it went 35. Didn't last to long over reveing flatend the crank. Ended up traiding it for a model A-Ford. Now wished I had both back Have fun......Curt
     
  16. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    Fortunately the crank doesn't mind which direction it's turning to get a push start/compression start, so starting backwards is the only option I have if I want to keep it pedal start with the freewheel sprocket. It's going to be worth it, as this would really be the closest thing you can find to an "on/off" switch for the motor. There's still considerable resistance when pulling it through the clutch, so the freewheel is the way to go. I'm sure somewhere along the line I might be able to find a way to engage and disengage the freewheel while it's still on the wheel and with the wheel on the bike, but that'll require me to make some ghetto blueprints.
     
  17. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    check with Hybriped
     
  18. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Member

    But unfortunately, therein lies the problem - everyone seems to have a different solution to the spoke sandwich sprocket problem, and the Hybriped is an option that delivers a solution to a problem I'm bypassing altogether. Though, I have a good idea now as to the mechanics of the Hybriped, although it doesn't help much, as it doesn't involve a freewheel or threading onto left handed hub threads on the left side (which is the parts I'm going to be working with).
     
  19. schlingman1

    schlingman1 New Member

    same boat

    I totally am with you and am currently trying to find a solution to the same problem. I have gone through a couple rims myself and thank god for the bike junkyard by me or would cost. I have looked into the kits u bought but wasnt aware of the problem u related so good looking out. I personally have even gone as far as thinking about welding the gear with spacers on the a spare hub i have to perminantly affixiate it
     
  20. schlingman1

    schlingman1 New Member

    im new

    Ok not to sound stupid but im lookign for a solution to whats a hybriped is it a jackshaft or hub kit
     
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