Discussion in 'General Questions' started by mikem, Dec 8, 2008.
Has anyone tried Duralube (or equivalent) on these small motors ... after break-in of course?
In a word: don't.
Which small engine are you thinking about?
IMO, "miracle" engine treatments are pretty much worthless. Check out the FTC website and you'll find that many of these slick oil salesmen have settled with the FTC and had to change the wording in their advertisements to stay out of jail.
In an engine with an oil sump, clean oil is the best oil. Keep with the manufacturers recommendations and you'll be fine.
For two strokes, once again, just stick with the manufacturers recommendations. For a HT engine, get a "TC" rated oil and mix per instructions. Some say not to use outboard oil that carries a TCW (water cooled) rating. IMO this is true for a high performance two stroke (dirt bike, etc) but for a bicycle engine or weed trimmer, a quality TCW oil will work just fine.
Hi Mike, just to clarify, what "small motors" are we talking about?
Duralube for Robin/Subaru 35 Four-Stroke
Thanks Guys ...
I was thinking of the Robin/Subaru 35, 4-stroke after a good, long break-in period.
I find that just having good regular dino oil and changing it often is the best way to go.
I run 10W-40 Castrol GTX High Mileage oil so it lasts a while between changes, but change it often. I run regular GTX the first two oil changes when new, then GTX high mileage oil since.
I use to try different oils and additives, thinking they'd make a huge difference in my brand-new 2001 Ford Ranger, but when I switched from regular dino oil, to Mobil 1 Synthetic, at around 40,000 miles, just after 50,000 miles the engine consumed way more oil afterward, and turned it dark much quicker. I went back to regular oil after that, but it still used more oil. It ran fine though, but it was obvious the engine worn more after the synthetic. WTF?
With an older car, (1986 Toyota Celica, over 213,000 miles) I ran 10W-40 or 20W-50 Castrol GTX with Lucas additive in it and got less smoking and blowby, and more power, but this engine is worn, so that makes more sense. Toyotas are awesome, they run forever if you take care of them!
Anyway, I just stick to one oil now with my bicycle engine, and so far I've had good luck. If you want to use the synth oil, do it immediately after 1st oil change or so, but pick an oil and stick with it. I find in a new engine, too many different oils wears it out more.
From what I've heard to a bit of teflon additive to oil does wonders....
The makers of Duralube believe in their product so much that they settled with the FTC for bogus advertising (unsubstantiated claims).
One of the things I love about our country is the number of idiots who are willing to buy products which make scammers into instant millionaires! These products include:
Extenze and other male "enhancement" drugs.
Airborne-forumulated by a 2nd grade teacher because she knows more about drugs than researchers with PhDs, MD, and chemists. Airborne made her over 100,000 million dollars!!!
Ok then, a subject close to my heart since I just got 6 of those in this morning.
One thing for sure, these small 4 strokes hold a tiny amount of oil, 100ml.
The Robin manual has recommendations in various weights, single and multi, depending on ambient temps.
I've seen it mentioned here repeatedly that conventional wisdom holds 10W-30 to be the best all around choice.....dino for break-in then going to synthectic.
So, blasphemous as it is, let me add this. When I checked in last summer with the closest authorized Robin dealer I found it to be a mom/pop small engine repair a couple miles from me. The old timer running the place said 'that engine wants a good 30 weight'. I mentioned that here once and was chided that the old timers always say '30 weight' for everything.
Then, searching around for something else one day I found this:
It's from an industrial equipment supplier:
I, and several other members here, noted gasoline contaminating the engine oil during break-in on the Robins, surmising it washing by the piston rings. Also several guys mentioned the air filter elements becoming oil soaked.
In my case, it was mid-summer and 90+ degrees out. I went to a high quality mono grade dino oil and the problem disappeared. The Robin owners manual does mention, quote:
Anyway, just thouight I'd mention it here. Like all things, YMMV.
I would tend to think that you got 217K Miles (350 km) because you took care of your engine. Many Civics are scrapped not because of lubrication related wear, but snapped timing belts and smashed valves. I typically run my cars over 200K before I replace them, to date, my record was a 1986 Plymouth Voyager that had a Chrysler 2.2L 4 cylinder. 305K miles, and I sold it to a fella that drove it to Columbia. It got oil changes every 5,000 miles with whatever dino-oil was on sale. No additives needed.
Teflon is for pots and pans, not engines. Dupont chemical, the people who own the trade name "Teflon" do not endorse its use in engines. This forces the snake oil people to use the more generic term "PTFE" instead of the trade name "Teflon".
You know those demos you see where they run a Briggs & Stratton engine with no oil, and the "treated" engine runs and the "non treated" engine seizes?
They pull this trick off by using 2 cycle mix in the "treated" engine. This lubricates the bore well enough to prevent seizure. The rod and main bearings survive without oil because they are not designed to be pressure lubricated, and any remaining oil in the crankcase is enough to keep it idling with no load. The non treated engine with straight gas will seize within several minutes because of the lack of cylinder lube.
Nothing beats a good old fashion oil change and filter.(Air/PVC also) Over the years I have stayed
away from Oil additives. But I always do use diluted dosage of fuel additive. (I swear my area's
gas stations have carpy fuel) I also get 200,000 trouble free miles with straight dino-oil.
Once again, it seems it will always will come back to personal opinion.
never worn one THING out -- this rings a bell
well does this ring a bell
even though many still insist on the every 3 thousand mile change
I have been doing the 5 thousand for a long time now
have never had one engine wear out on me
question comes to mind
with the 3 thousand changes many are doing -- how much oil are we wasting
also -- I haven't bought one engine big or small
where the man calls for any oil additives
oh yes - I have bought some from time to time
probably a big waste of money
ride that thing
Straight 30 Weight Dino sounds pretty good.
Thanks for all the input everybody. Looks like the we're leaning toward just using good old dino oil and changing it often ... hard to go wrong there.
Happy Valley mentioned reading the following quote:
Q: WHAT IS THE BEST OIL FOR 4-STROKE SUBARU ENGINES?
A: The best engine oil for your petrol-powered, 4-stroke SUBARU engine is a high-quality, mono-grade 30W oil and NOT a multi-grade. The rings on new engines will not bed properly if a multi-grade oil is used - you will just end up with a beautifully glazed bore!
Q: WHICH OIL SHOULD I USE FOR THE SUBARU EH025 & EHO35 SERIES ENGINES?
A: These engines are used on brushcutters, blowers, blower vacs and portable vibrator shafts. The owners manual suggests 10w-30 oil. Unfortunately weather temperatures above 20 degrees can cause excess oil in the air filter of these engines. We suggest (as per the service manual) that 30 grade mono be used consistently. "
I have also heard this over the years about 30 weight mono. I did this on a 1977 Chevy Malibu that I bought brand new and drove for about a dozen years with good results. Would be good to know if anyone else recommends mono grade 30.?
NOTE: Just heard from another member that using mono grade 30 oil should NOT be used in newer cars (1980's and newer) ... would cause oil starvation problems. See post below. Thanks arceeguy.
For a small utility engine, straight 30W might be fine - even recommended by the manufacturer but I would not use it in a car that was manufactured within the last 20 years or so. (unless the engine is worn out and burning oil and/or has a bearing knock)
The bearing and piston/cylinder tolerances of car engines are a lot tighter than they were back in the 60's and 70's. Using straight 30W or a thick 20W-50 oil will result in oil starvation problems in all but the most tropical of climates. Save the thick stuff for worn out car engines that need the heavy oil to mask excessive bearing and piston/ring/cylinder clearance issues.
Modern fuel injected car engines burn very clean, so clean that it is hard for someone to try and kill themselves through asphyxiation by running a car in a their garage. This means that engine oil service intervals may be extended under normal conditions. My old minivan had a carburetor, and ran a long time with 5000 mile intervals. My company cars get oil changes at 8-10K mile intervals with dino-juice and they last over 150K before they are sold off. I'm sure their new owners could run them many miles more too!
I know some people would rather be "safe than sorry" - but changing oil every 3K is very wasteful. A short interval like that is only necessary if the car sees frequent short trips, especially in cold weather.
good old 30 weight
when in doubt I usually just grab some grade 30 oil
here in San Diego -- weather does not change a whole lot
in our summers -- 30 weight would seem to be the best
cooler winters -- letting that 30 warm up a little before take off
if anyone needs the Robin 35cc manuals in attachment form
feel free to pm me
have a good day as you -- ride that thing
Good point Mountainman. Wish you hadn't mentioned warm San Diego weather though ... 18 degrees here with over 2 feet of snow. Now that will make a friction drive slip!
A friend of mine was having problems with oil pressure sensors leaking on his new car. Turns out that the problem was his use of 10W-40 oil where the manufacturer specified 5W-30. When the engine was cold, the oil pressure skyrocketed due to the tight bearing clearances in his new (precision manufactured) engine. This increased oil pressure was "blowing out" the oil pressure sensor and delaying oil circulation to the top end of the engine causing the engine to clatter for several seconds until oil got to all areas of the engine. After he switched to the recommended weight, all of the "problems" disappeared. He had apparently stocked up on 10W-40 oil (for his old clunker) when it was on sale.
As far as the extended oil changes go, I would like to add that you should check to see if your engine has inherent "sludge" problems. Many Toyotas and turbocharged VW/Audi are prone to contaminate oil and form sludge. Come to think of it, I wouldn't go over 5000 miles on any turbocharged engine. Those turbo bearing are rough on oil! (Synthetic recommended if not already factory mandated.)
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