electric start "silver bullet train" engine

Discussion in '2-Stroke Engines' started by jatgm1, Aug 23, 2016.

  1. KCvale

    KCvale Motorized Bicycle Vendor

    Well, I got and tested one of those 70cc Zelda's, I just paid the shipping for one direct from the China factory.
    I put it on a Micagri Pantera bike.
    Topic about my experience with it is here http://kcsbikes.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=948

    Cool having 2-stroke generated electric power and electric start, and the engine seemed strong and has good mounts, 2 front and rear, but a real disappointment in real life regular use, and not the least bit friendly to wire up.

    Mine sits at my helpers house unable to be started to get it back here.

    I'm just saying take the kit with a grain of salt is all, it's just not as cool as it sounds.
    Speaking of which, I have been friends with Don Grube (Grubbee, Skyhawk brands) for years.
    Very helpful for getting innovation actually manufactured, but in China knock-off's of quality is their main business.

    I asked Don about them, this is his E-response verbatim...

    ---

    KC;


    Thanks for the heads up: Yes; We do keep up with competition; In fact competition copies what we do. I may be up in years but I'm still kicking!


    Jack Chen owns or operates JL-ZEDA and CDH China Dolphin Harbor He claims to only own JL ZEDA but both are in Jilin City China. He is a 2 faced snake! Jack is his fake name; He's a Cheater and CopyCat and that makes him a low life SOB.


    I think he started ZEDA so if sued he wont' take CDH down. He's smuggling 2 stroke engines into the US without EPA certification and that is totally illegal!. Has help from our corupt gov. officials and US Customs and probably help from the China gov. too. Claims to have warehouses in the USA. ZEDA buys my frame design that I spent years and money in developing. The Tianjin frame factory promised to not sell to anybody else but turned out to be 2 faced liers in the end. In China; money talks and bull sh*t walks; I tried to tell my wife we needed a legal contract drawn up but she wouldn't listen to me. Now she's sorry becuase it was her money we used!


    ZEDA electric start 2 cycle engine with 12v gen is a pile of sh*t! Too heavy, Too complicated & Too costly at 300 smackers. It defeats the purpose of having a light weight motorized bicycle in the first place.


    They should have developed a 4 stroke version but had a 2 stroke modified instead.. His sh*t is not selling well. Only Jack Lin at Bike Berry has any in stock and he is discounting them to move them out. I see you suckered in.

    BirdDog got a free one to look at and they say it's a joke: Not sure if AssBike is selling them or not as I do not see them on their web site last time I checked? MZ Parts in Florida says it is a pile of sh*t too. Did Zeda send you a free one? I think you are way too smart to spend hard earned money to buy one.


    Our new Cordless 20v impact wrench easy-start 2 stroke EPA certified GT5A-ES engine will lead the news. We have a container load of these in Dallas right now heading on up to Durant. Price is only 5 bucks more than a standard 2 stroke engine. Retail Price is $115.00 less carb,cdi & muff. It's available with a CAD/CAM designed and CNC machined HP head and double fire high engery CDI. It may look like it but we are not standing still.

    Nov 1st we will be opening our own USA warehouse and I'm going to be working there myself. Not returning to China. My wife's brother will take care of the China side,. My son Jimmy did not pan out and went his own way! We will have a web site like all the other guys so customers can click "add to cart". We will have retail and wholesale pricing. Watch our Okie smoke!


    Happy Trails

    Don
    ---

    There is no such thing as 'too much' information about anything in life, like the cancer doctor that read my PET scan results the other day, my cancer has not spread, it's all above my neck!.

    Don has spent his life trying to make the best stuff he can in China.
    His designs, and even mine, but that news is for another topic.

    That's about all I have to say about this topic, hope it helps.
     
    Pezz likes this.

  2. jatgm1

    jatgm1 Member

    oh it does indeed! also incase you wanted to start that bugger, tell me if this is the same starter, it looks damn near identical to me.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/90cc-110cc-...ash=item35e6078648:g:JkIAAOSwe-FU8Wzz&vxp=mtr

    and to Frankenstein, my case in point. 300$ gamble. if i wouldve bought that it would be a 300 dollar doorstop in no time. im only replacing the electric starter and pull start so many times.
     
  3. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    That is almost undoubtedly the same exact starter, nice backsearch, bet it took a while to find it. Only thing is it's probably got a form of a gear instead a sprocket.

    Sad to see it's got such a negative rep in such a small time. I can't shake this feeling though that it will take off. Honestly look at the problems that the original engines suffered. They were some of the most cheap unreliable pieces of scrap aluminum one could find. We started upgrading all sorts of parts, then the upgrades became standard in even the worst kits nowadays.

    It's a needed change, and while the wiring may suck, it's also part of the system, you add 4 more electrical components and you will get at least a few more wires. You add more crap like a starter, and a pull start, and an electrical box, and a centrifugal clutch, and a lead battery... Well you get the picture, you'll have more weight. You try something new, you'll get bugs. I can't say how much it actually sucks because I don't own one or even saw one, but it should be agreed that Android 1.1 sucked pretty bad, so did the first computer, first iPhone, first vehicles didn't even have differentials even though the design for one existed for nearly 2 millennia..

    So while it sucks to our rather refined version of a bicyle motor, it will end up being improved, and fixed, and worked over till it has a decent level of reliability as our known motors.

    How many new engine designs even came out over the years that competed with the standard anyways?
     
  4. Demo_Ricky-Bobby

    Demo_Ricky-Bobby New Member

    Im goin to hav to agree with u on this one. Even though this engine sukcks right now, it just came out. So wen something new comes out, doesnt matter wat it is, most of the time its going to suck ass. Of course theres no parts available for it right now, its brand new. Of course shits goin to brake on it, its brand new. U cant jugde a book by its cover if the first page is still being written. Give it a while. People r goin to buy the engine kit and brake it. Improvments will b made and parts will start to b available for shortly after. Wen i first bought my bicycle engine i couldnt find parts anywhere for in aftermark anything. Now theres everything under the sun for them. And as far as a light kit the is and AUX wire in the electrical box that comes with it, that u can run a full light kit off of the engine kit. It even has and on off for it all. If everyone would give it time the better models will come

    That what i have to say i think it has a lot of room to grow. I wont buy one now. But mayb i a year i will
     
  5. jatgm1

    jatgm1 Member

    that cool and all, but the company making it is just copying the design from grubee and making it bigger with excessive stuff. and probably going to get shut down for illegal activity, effectively making the engines disappear with only 300 in the states. i could just cut a hole in the case somewhere in the center, and make a drill bit that fit on the crank shaft, then just carried a 20v electric drill. more reliable. electric start. parts availability. and welcome to the forum ricky i see you just joined yesterday.
     
  6. KCvale

    KCvale Motorized Bicycle Vendor

    That's not entirely correct...
    They didn't copy the engine design, heck the head and cylinder are one unit for example, but the factory that builds his frames that were forbidden to sell them to anyone else, did anyway.

    Though the Zelda has 2 front mounts, the frame only has one set of holes.
    I suppose that could come in handy but I can't see how when you have a dedicated engine/frame mount system.
     
  7. Demo_Ricky-Bobby

    Demo_Ricky-Bobby New Member

    The only thing that i see that is a copy form the original engine. Is the carb and part of the exhaust. Everything else is all diffrent so he didnt copy grubee at all realy. But he did copy the idea of having a 2 stroke bicycle engine. So realy he isnt doin anything illegal, hes just making something new

    And thanx for welcoming me. I feels grate to b apart of a group that shares the same hobbies as i do
     
  8. jatgm1

    jatgm1 Member

    it is a new design, and it is kinda cool, but my question is if it complies with the weight limits on these engines, i know that the grubee site specificly says "total vehicle dry weight cannot exceed 20KG or 44lbs" and that leaves a total of 9.5 kg for your bike. or 20 lb ish. so add all the weight of the new engine and your bike may no longer comply with the law technicly. and also its not epa certified at all. so yea. i mean, if its not legally supposed to be here, the likelyhood of parts availibility seems low. i mean, if i see parts for it on ebay becoming popular than i might go for it, but thats only if everything is available. if i cant fix it, i dont want it. otherwise its a paperweight. thus far weve found the electric starter, maybe. but other than that, its all a mystery. like i said, its a gamble. id rather save up money and get a motoped. ya its way more expensive, but its also legal, easy to work on, and has parts available. if i want electric start ill go with that. i mean, i bought an engine kit on ebay that cost total, under 100$, and it works fine. if im gonna go for something expensive then im all in no matter what, i may as well go big or go home.
     
  9. jatgm1

    jatgm1 Member

    by engine kit i mean the base kit itself, to clarify. gas tank engine throttle and whatnot. not the after-market improvements and repairs.
     
  10. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Well the illegal part is selling a bicycle frame design he didn't own, however from what I understand there wasn't a contract or even a patent. If there was a patent in his name in both the USA and China, then he'd have an object of legal leverage.

    The other illegal thing is importing engines into the USA without epa certification. But.... Well let's see, if you want to use it on the roads or in the country of California off road or sell in the country of California, you'll need epa certs. Otherwise it's as unregulated as toilet paper, oh wait toilet paper is regulated more.

    Also you (not the repliee if this post but the one who hopes they get shut down) are trying to get a foreign company in China of all places (they wouldn't deport a Chinese national if he blew up the white house, shot the president and his wife, and stabbed 100 people to death after setting 30 orphanages on fire, they just don't care about foreign policies or laws, and definitely not about epa requirements) shut down from American soil. It just won't happen.

    The carb isn't even a copy, it's just using what's available, since there are a billion walbro clones and just as many mufflers laying around, and no need to redesign them, it only makes sense to use them.

    So just hang on and let time take its course, you'll see. I'm still waiting for my Flux capacitor upgrade with a cold fusion power core...
     
  11. jatgm1

    jatgm1 Member

    oh and i was thinking of this for a bit, using a modified centrifugal clutch (modified so that the weights were light enough so at the lowest setting it did not engage) or a belt system with some sort of manual clutch to engage the belt with friction may actually be viable if there truly is not enough torque from the engine to the tire to bent or break the crank shaft or key. that being said, i would look to make sure that it did actually have a key, otherwise you would just notice backfiring, then not starting, and then need a new crank. which would bend again.

    also, i would look to see if the total displacement of the engine is what counts or if its per cylinder, if its per cylinder, whats stopping anyone from using two grubee engines geared high, front and back to get more power.. i found a brake lever that pulls two cables, adding a manic mechanic adapter to the front wheel and mounting it above the front fork is totally viable if you can weld. two dual brake levers, one for both clutches, the other for both brakes, and the throttle built into these brake levers (thumb throttle) one per motor, independent drive systems. probably cheaper too, not counting custom fabrication of a front fork with a motor mount. plus two separate carburetors, so dual fuel is totally viable, and two wheel drive. you could even use that pin release sprocket mount on the front and rear tires so you can completely disengage one and say the other is a backup with the po po none the wiser. with the aviation engine, if they wanna bust your balls you cant just pull off a cylinder and go "look its only 50cc". i mean, in terms of asthetic appeal, yea i guess its kinda cool, i cant argue that, but if i had to choose my scooter over a mint looking Harley that ran like crap, id choose my scooter every time. (actual yamaha zuma 125 scooter, not my gas bicycle scooter)
     
  12. jatgm1

    jatgm1 Member

    eh. if time takes its course and the engine becomes popular and as cheap as a grubee, or close to it, than yea ill give it a shot. but until then im not placing a bet on a unknown chinese company that was so interested in replying to my emails until i said that i needed to make sure parts were available first. not to mention, ive noticed that actual grubee engines have some serious advantages over the cheap copy i have. if the company isn't interested in responding, im sure their not interested in quality control either. ive replaced litterally over half of all parts on this thing. so if the quality is the same itll be screwed to hell in no time. unless i misread the forum the one kcvale had got around 200 miles before it sh*t the bed. 300 dollars per 200 miles seems like a monetary loss in my book. not even counting gas money and oil and setup time. (assuming the starter motor i found was incompatible with the engine. given the loose chinese standards thats a 50 50 chance. again another gamble.)
     
  13. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Did you just say Chinese standards? Oh no I think you read something wrong, there are no standards ;)

    Also worth a mention is http://m.ebay.com/itm/3-4-Manual-Clutch-for-Go-kart-or-Mini-Bike-12-teeth-35-sprocket-/152113769854

    Very professional looking and well built looking manual clutch, in case you're wondering on how that would be done out. Never had a thing for auto clutches.

    That motor is 50cc per cylinder, however it would be worth mentioning is that it gets 2 shots per revolution, each half way through. Now our standard motor of the 66 variety only gets one shot per revolution, so a cycle (2 strokes of a piston) is 66cc worth of gas, the airplane motor will get 100ccs worth of gas for one cycle (also 2 strokes of a single piston)

    It's defined as 100cc because the same single turnover (1 revolution) uses 100cc of gas/air while our normal bike motor uses just 66.

    I'm sure you already knew this, but in case you didn't, now you do, as well as anyone else who is struggling to understand multiple cylinder motors (hopefully.)

    My only fear is that in the efforts to reduce the price of the electric start motors to match the prices of a standard kit they (manufacturer and the cloners) will end up making it so completely shitty that it breaks before leaving the post man's hands.

    Of course the police can't demand you pull the cylinder apart and prove it's under 50 cc, that's like demanding I drain some gas from my truck to prove it's not leaded fuel by a test, or have my have me remove my brake calipers to ensure they aren't stolen by running the serial numbers. If I say my dual cylinder engine is 48cc total displacement then they have to accept it at face value and can't proceed further without an rs or pc to believe otherwise. If I'm not breaking any laws then they have no reason to pull me over. If I'm breaking the law then yeah pull me over, but still nothing they can do as far as tearing my bike open to see what kinda guts it has.

    I'm all about being a sane driver, being respectful of the police and being polite and easy to work with when it comes to dealing with them. But I'm not against shoving a rookies head up his own ass with a superior to him being present when needed. Nor would I tolerate an ass hole trying to make a big deal out of my mode of transportation just because he feels like it. In this state the law is very much in favour of the motorized bicyclist and nothing makes it any different rights wise than a motorcycle or a tractor-trailer.

    Any way off topic, but I could see you doing a friction drive on the front wheel, but it just seems unwieldy, it's a lot of weight to turn quickly, and 2 motors running at once sounds like a very fast way to get hurt if one (especially the front) fails.

    Eh, it will be what it will become. My bets are it's going to be a very nice way to run around town, especially during those fun mid-intersection stalls (don't even try to claim you don't stall on occasion)
     
  14. jatgm1

    jatgm1 Member

    no i didnt mean a friction drive, i mean get wide front forks, add a manic mechanic adapter to the front wheel, mount the engine above the wheel, add a chain. also that makes the displacement 100cc. plus, technically 66cc engines are kinda illegal, anything under 50 is legal where i am. sorta.
     
  15. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Lol you put a 50cc direct chain drive on your front wheel have fun I'll be here not dying.
     
    Frankfort MB's likes this.
  16. jatgm1

    jatgm1 Member

    a two wheel drive motorized bicycle seems like the ultimate offroad vehicle. throw it on a mtb frame, i guess use a centrifugal clutch on the front wheel and you'd reduce the problems. either way it'd haul ass.
     
  17. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    Emphasis on the word "seems"

    Perhaps an electric front hub and a motor driven rear wheel, that would be an ultimate off road bicyle.

    Oh what yeah all those dirt bikes that run off road so graciously only use rear wheel drive I wonder why this is so...

    OK an electric hub in the front wouldn't be so bad, however an entire engine on the front is worthy of death, especially a chain driven one. Once it locks up you are playing superman for about 3 seconds untill you come to your senses in a hospital bed finding out you went head first over your handlebars while offroading into a bunch of rocks or trees.

    Any difference in speed between the 2 motors will have the bike being pulled apart or squeezed onto itself, you'll find the front wheel slipping during acceleration and the rear during braking. Both are a shitty way to lose traction on an off road course, which in itself is not even a good idea to be going faster than a single engine can carry a person in the first place on.

    Best bet is a single motor, a jackshaft, and some nice low gearing up to some high gears for the speed.
     
  18. jatgm1

    jatgm1 Member

    you do realize that the military utilized two wheel drive motorcycles specifically for overcoming obstacles in ww2 right? if the engine locks up with a centrifugal clutch the clutch disengages, problem automatically solved. if you use an electric planetary gear motor hub motor in the front thatll work too. especially if you have an engine like the one were discussing in the forum with an alternator that can charge the battery, and since its a geared motor hub theirs no drag. but two gas engines attached to a bicycle seems more fun to me. your talking 132cc total displacement with both tires gripping the ground. thats an orgasmic amount of acceleration, and fantastic traction. and if geared properly you have a higher top speed too. either that or if you gear it low itll haul ass up hills.
     
  19. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Well-Known Member

    I did not know about the ww2 motorcycles, at least assuming you are talking about a front and rear wheel drive version, I know the BMW r75 was 2 wheel driven, however it was a shaft driven sidecar wheel, it was also over 700cc and I'll mention Harley Davidson made a version as well for the American military. I also know this was the product of ww2
    KiH2xCw.jpg

    It sucked ass and was never built again.

    Also just because the engine can lock up, it doesn't mean other parts don't, such as the chain locking up or even slipping off and then locking up.

    I'd rather install a loose rusty front fender than take a risk with a 66cc motor stuck to my front wheel.
     
  20. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    and its still being manufactured, called the rokon...

    and yamaha had a go at doing a hydraulic drive front wheel...

    didnt really catch on though, did it? i cant see them being used by trials riders that can scale obstacles that would put mountain goats to shame... they stick to tiny little 125/250cc single cylinder suckers with virtually no bike underneath bar the wheels and handlebars.

    and there is the drysdale attempt but he made it two wheels steer as well. apparently the thing is virtually unrideable!

    this was a discussion on the jzeda engine originally. i cant help but feel that the email that KCvale copied and pasted was exactly my thoughts when i first saw the thing in HIS thread...without having had first hand experience.

    its heavy. its complicated. its pointless. why wasnt it based on a fourstroke engine? they could have just as easily used the subaru-fuji/huasheng design fourstroke and made castings/toolings to suit that engine. and if they had hired a designer that had actually RIDDEN an MB... it would have fitted between a standard crankset.

    instead they try to add all these features that are simply more parts to fail, more parts to replace, more parts to cause general confusion in the general public.

    a perfect example of chinese DESIGN. they can COPY, but very few of them can actually DESIGN FROM SCRATCH... a quick glance shows that half the castings are just modified cases from the "venerable" HT style engine...
     
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