Engine numbers?

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by GearNut, May 26, 2010.

  1. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    Do HS or Honda engines have a factory number?
    Before the shop I worked at closed it's doors for good and I became broke as a joke, I was planning on buying an EZ Motorbike trans and engine kit with an HS engine. I am still pondering a Honda engine too, but i digress...
    Anyways, I do have an HT kit sitting on my bench and I want to install it into my bicycle seeing as I already have it and I cannot afford the 4-stroke kit.
    My concern is when I go to title it I need to put down an engine number.
    This concerns me as I do plan on eventually installing a 4-stroke kit in it in the future. Do the HS or Honda engines have a manufacture's serial number stamped on them? If they do, then I forsee a problem when I switch out power plants as the number on the engine I have now would not match the new engine's number.
     

  2. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member

    Very Interesting...:detective:

    I kinda sorta have the same question for possibly doing whatever it is that I need to do to go thru the DMV in Florida.

    This should be an easy question to answer. :)
     
  3. There going to want a bike and engine serial number,you could always stamp a number on the new engine that matches your old engine,or you could just register it twice,i don't think you want to do that.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2010
  4. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    I know. My bike has a serial number. It's the engine number that will change when I do an engine swap in the future. It obviously will not be the same number *if* the HS or Honda engines come with a factory stamped number. That is my concern. Do those engines come with such a number? I do not want the registration to come under fire if the popo ever want to mess with me.
    I have no knowledge of an official number change form available for MB's like they do for motorcycles.
     
  5. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    The honda has a serial #, its not a VIN of course. My Titan/hs I cant easily locate one.
     
  6. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    Darn! That pretty much rules out a honda in it's future then.
    I wonder if a cop would understand if I told him/ her that the original engine blew up and I put a new one in it?
     
  7. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    Why...do you not know how many vehicles are on the road with different engine numbers (same VIN), due to having a rebuilt put in....Is Californaia more FU than I thought they are.
     
  8. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    Well, concerning cars, no not really. When it comes to motorcycles, absolutely!
    The way I see it, it must be difficult to visually see the numbers on a car's engine block. I say it this way because I do not know much concerning their placement.
    I do know that the numbers on a motorcycle's engine are purposely placed to make it easy to read. Law enforcement regularly checks these numbers, even during routine traffic stops.
    An MB is just a tiny version of a full fledged motorcycle. Considering this, what would stop an officer from routinely checking the engine numbers?
    Call me paranoid if you wish to, but such concern arises from my knowledge gained from working on motorcycles for 27 years, 17 of them as a certified technician, 5 of them in the salvage industry.
    I have been through almost all the legal aspects of registration and record keeping, including assessing positive identification and assisting lawful recovery of stolen motorcycles and components.

    Edit: Kaliforgnia requires that any parts installed after a motorcycle's initial sale that are identified by a factory issued serial number must be reported to the DMV and the change is recorded on the vehicle's title and registration.

    Such parts would include the frame, engine and transmission if seperate from the engine block. (most Harleys). Any discrepancy from the titled components can be justified as suitable reason for immediate impoundment of the vehicle and the arrest of the individuals involved for possession of stolen items. Now, if none of the questionable items are on a hot list, most of the time you will just be issued a fix-it ticket as officers do not want to deal with the piles pf paperwork involved with the aforementioned outcome.
    Conclusion:
    I have never, ever heard of a form providing the legal change of serial numbers on an MB. Sooooo This is my concern.
    I do not want to build this bike up, knowing full well that I will be completely changing out the power train in the future and not have the ability to legally correct the serial numbers involved with the registration.
    I don't wanna get stuck with my MB getting impounded and me charged with possession of stolen property. The wet eared Sheriffs around here are encouraged to do the mountains of paperwork involved because this is neighborhood considered a training ground for them, and they need the experience.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2010
  9. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Gearnut,

    The HS & Honda motors do have serial numbers stamped into the crankcase.

    They are stamped deep and would be difficult to avoid. They are stamped near where the case is sandwiched together.

    Have fun,
     
  10. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    Arrrrrrrrgh!
    Thank you Quenton. Unfortunately, that is what I was afraid of.
    Darn, darn, darn!
    Do I build the Atlas with an HT engine I all ready have or wait.......

    I'm going to crawl into a deep, dark hole somewhere and ponder this for a while.
    I wanna build a new MB, darn it!






    Kaliforgnia sucks........
     
  11. jared8783

    jared8783 Member

    ok so what does "HT" stand for in the phrase "HT engine kit"?

    thanks
    jared
     
  12. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    H-appy
    T-imes

    The cheap priced in frame 2-strokes.
    Grubee, Flying Horse, Power King, ect. style engines.

    Some time ago, long before I even knew they existed, somebody labeled them as a Happy Times engine.
    I have no idea where it came from or why it stuck, but HT is commonly used as an abbreviation for this style of engine.
     
  13. scotto-

    scotto- Member

    What's the big stink here...

    Quote: Call me paranoid if you wish to, but such concern arises from my knowledge gained from working on motorcycles for 27 years, 17 of them as a certified technician, 5 of them in the salvage industry.

    PARANOID=you...right? I don't understand your concern for something that will never come up. You don't need to register these vehicles to begin with in the sucky state of kaliforgia, why are you losing sleep over this. Build your bike, ride it legally and git on with your life. And wear a helmet!
     
  14. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    Registration is required in the great state of Kaliforgnia.
    They issue you a special license plate that you are required to attach to your bike.
    There is a one time, non re-occurring fee for this plate. Last year it was $19 this year I think it is $21. It goes up each year.
    Without this plate any, LEO in Kaliforgnia can impound your bike on the spot.
     
  15. scotto-

    scotto- Member

    Whatever...

    Sounds like you live in Sacramento...ride on.
     
  16. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    That person was our member (& former admin,) augidog.
     
  17. scotto-

    scotto- Member

    Please read...section 4020

    <A href="http://www.defend-me.com/california-vehicle-code/california-vehicle-code-section-4000-4023.asp">http://www.defend-me.com/california-vehicle-code/california-vehicle-code-section-4000-4023.asp
    </A>

    For your viewing pleasure, please read cvc:4020 out loud...and yes, this is the GREAT state of California, thank-you very much...drive-thru! Cheers!
     
  18. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    They do not need to be registered, this it true, but they do need to be licensed.
    I did in fact misspeak myself, sorry :eek:
    I do know about these,
    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg230.pdf
    Here's a pdf to 406 Division 3 that pretty much spills it out in simple terms.
    Key in on # 5030. This pdf was taken directly from the CADMV.
    http://www.electricvehiclemall.com/pdf/CVC_for_Motorized_Bicycles.pdf
    It's a good one to print out and keep with you to educate the badge happy LEO's. when they want to mess with you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  19. scotto-

    scotto- Member

    Thanks!

    Hey, thanks for that info GearNut, good stuff too know!

    I just went to traffic court today for a ticket I got last month. It was for NOT wearing a helmet? Now I'm 53 years er...young and ever since I can remember, a helmet was only required by riders under the age of 18...did I miss something? A moderately long story made short; on a casual ride home from paying some bills, riding legally and pedaling my bike after sighting johnny law, got pulled over and the usual runaround as I did produce my CA drivers license (which is also an M1 class). The officers asked me every question under the sun about my ride as if they wanted to build their own, then kindly slapped me with a ticket for not wearing a "bicycle" helmet. The offense on the ticket was cvc 21235D, which doesn't even apply to me or motorized bicycles for that matter and needless too say I left the courtroom with charges dropped and didn't have to pay a penny (as I was expecting).

    So my question is, is it mandantory to wear a helmet if over the age of 18 riding a "Motorized Bicycle" in the state of California? The judge didn't know and nor did I for proof positive, so does anybody here now the current legality on this issue?

    End of rant and thanks again for the links GearNut! Chime in legal eagles...

    Cheers, scotto-:D

    Sorry GearNut...I didn't mean to thread-jack, my apologies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2010
  20. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    These two references come from the crib sheet used by the Newport Beach PD for enforcement of the CVC.

    If your bike is powered by a gas motor or an electric bicycle without pedals [406(a) CVC]: 27803(b) CVC Motorcycle Helmet Required

    If your bike is electric with pedals and less than 1000 watts [406(b) CVC]: 240116(b)(1) CVC Bicycle Helmet required

    ocscully
     
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