EPA paves way for broad emission limits

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by Happy Valley, Apr 19, 2009.

  1. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    While this isn't specifically about MB laws, it certainly is bound to have an effect
    on all "greenhouse gas producers", particularly if something like the California CARB standards are adopted nationally.


     

  2. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    It's probably gonna be painful. But let's look at the bright side; if the automobile (as we know it) is outlawed or reduce drastically in numbers, then I can see a whole industry of mopeds, all-weather golf carts and stuff like that popping up. Not to mention bicycles. Maybe even locally built.

    Let's allow the trucks that deliver our goods and agriculture to burn the petroleum. For individual transport, we can find something better.

    It's a lot better than waiting for $15.00/gal fuel to kill the car.
     
  3. mabman

    mabman Member

    Legislation like this is like closing the gate after the animals are out. The greenhouse gases are caused by our inefficient use of fuels which has been going on for far too long now. There have been solutions for this on the table for years. Every time any of these solutions are addressed our government and the API effectively squash it with a bunch of misinformation. The whole global warming thing has become a joke to many because of this.
     
  4. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    Gday everyone
    Here is the EPA release on 17 April 2009, EPA Finds Greenhouse Gases Pose Threat to Public Health ..., which should interest MBC members and visitors.

    The fact is that MBs are very low greenhouse gas emitters. My calcs are that MBs can achieve 1/10th greenhouse footprint of cars. They are the next best thing to bicycles.
     
  5. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    Wow, a naturally occuring gas is a thread to public health? I guess that means all carbonation in soda should also be banned now. Flat coke and sprite is change I can belive in....or will that be taxed to death too under cap and trade?
     
  6. nadroj

    nadroj Member

    Global Warm is not caused by humans wake up!
     
  7. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    C'mon..what do you have to gain by all the denial?

    But wait a minute...let's pretend you're right. Man-made climate change is nothing to worry about....Where does this get us?

    Burning fossil fuels still messes up the planet. And it's not sustainable, anyway.

    Some of us don't want our society to crash like a jumper with a faulty parachute.

    Pretending that it can't happen doesn't help anyone. It doesn't even help the pretenders. It's nuts.
     
  8. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    Well BGW, right or wrong on the denial thing, one thing for sure is articles like this solicit the usual grumblings and opinions that accomplish little. Like it or not, we are headed for stricter carbon emission regs.

    One might think, even hope. Bicycles use certainly will get a nod and a pass.

    Still, I remember the moped craze in the '70s brought on by sky-rocketing energy prices only to be stifled by regulation. This time around we'll have higher energy cost PLUS the oncoming emissions regs.

    It's a source of endless amazement to me to encounter folks who might embrace the idea of power assist bikes as long as they are plug-in electric.
    Starting from the federal DOT to your local DMV, from bikes shops to the man on the street, from acquaintances to good friends, almost all overwhelmingly will show enthusiasm for Ebike alternatives and almost equally all will dismiss small, clean, efficient ICEs as power assist add-ons.

    The rather simple fact that the power, and emissions, are being generated 30 miles away at a power plant seems to escape them, combined with the total over-all enviro impact of dealing with spent storage cells.

    But, I guess it's not in their back yard.

    Call it unfair but I see the day soon when cheap, loosely engineered engines like the Chinese HT 2 strokes will be regulated out of existence. It's already largely been done in China.

    I too would like to see the day when a "whole industry" of Alt Trans develops here in the US but realistically I see that opening being small and narrow and smoky Chinese 2 strokes aren't in the picture. It remains to be seen if the better engineered small engines, some examples of which are currently available from Japan and already passing CARB II standards, will be thrown out with them.

    The MB movement is still in the infancy in a lot of ways but unfortunately I see many aspects of it as being..well, infantile and it might never get to grow up.
    Not meaning to ruffle feathers but to a large extent I see much of the interest in MBs not focused on Alt Trans schemes or as serious commuter alternatives but more as playthings akin to ATVs or dirtbikes. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, just reading the tea leaves on what the future might hold and musing about a way to position myself particularly in regard to future equipment and purchases.
     
  9. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    yes, it is dis-heartening to see people point at electrics and insist that that is the ONLY way. You can't help feeling frustrated at the lack of thought. If we could somehow convert our auto fleet into electrics, then the pollution caused would be about the same.
    And they totally ignore the fact that we don't have the electricity infrastructure to deliver that much to each home, business, etc. It'll surely take decades to build.

    But that could be a strength for small internal combustion engines. They might well be the only alternative. The large ones must go, but the small ones must stay.
     
  10. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    The core problem is that the MAB has not been marketed to the general public. While it remains a toy, it is destined for oblivion
     
  11. I still think we are safe here especially those that run the 4 strokes but even the 2 stroke bikes I'm thinking we're still okay simply because no one complains when you cut your lawn when they see us they see a bicycle with an engine you find in back of a landscaping truck.
    When people start complaining about your lawnmower putting out a little smoke because your rings are a bit worn or whatever THAT'S when I'll start to worry.
    Until then,like Mountain Man puts it so well,I'll just keep riding that thing.
     
  12. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    You must not live in California.

    CARB=California Air Resource board.
     
  13. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    Yep Skyliner - sounds almost unbelieveable. Its the "too much of a good thing" principle.

    Hydrogen Sulphide (Rotten egg gas) is a naturally occuring gas. In high concentration you can't smell it but it kills you.

    Of course, I'm not suggesting that rotten egg gas is a good thing... - just using it to illustrate a point :ack2:

    I would like to think that you are right, Large but Happy Valley's comments need to be noted. In October 2008, the EPA finalised its position on dirty 2-strokes and I, for one, would like to see a very lightweight motor-assisted bicycle retained for the future.

    Happy Valley - That's a great quote on your signature.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2009
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