FL Law Update 04/20/2011 Gas Powered Bicycle Reg. N O T Required

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by occchopperfl, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member


  2. sangesf

    sangesf Banned

    Remember, everyone, you still must have a drivers license to ride one..

    The DMV PDF deals with REGISTRATION ONLY.
     
  3. Gene

    Gene Member

    I admit I am confused. Lets forget about drivers license. Which PDf is the latest by date I see no dates in either post here or the pdf on the other thread.
    can someone compare these two. And not to get diverted just yet , I will say if you dont need a registration for a moped you dont need a drivers license. Whats going on here?
    gene
     
  4. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member

    I think you are mistaken again.

    A drivers license is NOT required.
    When registration was required, a license was required.

    This is no longer the case.
     
  5. sangesf

    sangesf Banned

    Gene,
    At the bottom in the middle of the first page, it says "effective date"
    (took me a while to find it too, but it's there)

    OCCChopperFL,

    In reference to DL...
    "Registration Law" and "Driver's License Law" are mutually exclusive.
    DMV says no registration...
    FL Statutes describe a "moped"
    DMV states that if you ride a "moped" you need at least a Class E driver's license
    So, at this exact moment in time...
    If you're riding a gas powered bicycle OR an electric bike capable of speeds greater than 20mph, and a cop pulls you over..
    You can NOT be ticketed for "unregistered motor vehicle".
    (Since DMV says you can't register it)
    You CAN be ticketed for driving a "motor vehicle" without a valid license.
    (Better known as DWLS - Driving While License Suspended or no driver's license).

    DMV states you can't register a bicycle with a gas motor on it as a moped, that doesn't mean that the definition of a moped (in the Florida statutes) changes.

    Let's say for an instant, you don't need a license..
    What happens tomorrow or next week or next month, when that PDF changes (again).
    Are you or anyone else going to check the DMV PDFs every day?
    (Which reminds me, what website do I go to, to look for these "procedural documents?")

    P.S. Let me ask you this..
    Let's say I have an electric bicycle with a top speed capable of 25mph..
    Well Florida statute says that an ebike is a bicycle only if it's only capable of 20mph tops.
    So what am I riding then?
    Am I riding a bicycle or a moped?
    Well, I'm not riding a bicycle, because the statutes say, I'm only allowed 20mph top speed to remain as just a bicycle...
    So, if I'm not a bicycle, am I a moped? How do we figure that out? Well, you have to look at the Florida statutes and see I'm classified as a moped. (Can I register it as one? - Who knows?)
    So you're telling me, a gas powered bicycle with top speeds between 20-30 mph, doesn't require a license to ride, but my electric one does?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011
  6. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member

    Hi,

    Heres my 2 cents:

    a. please see pg 1 of dmv doc bottom of page for 4/20/2011 date, as well as reference of relevant doc update, exhibit F, question #3.

    http://www3.flhsmv.gov/DMV/Proc/TL/TL-10.PDF

    b. here is a copy paste that I did on the "old" 03/15/2011 date -
    (same exhibit F, question #3) for your review:

    "3. Scenario: A company is advertising on TV a gas engine kit that can be added
    to a bicycle. The engine is tied into the pedal system like a Moped
    and it has to be pedaled to start the engine. It is advertised that the
    bicycle will be propelled to 30MPH.
    Q. How is the tax collector supposed to register this bicycle/gas engine
    assembly?
    A. The definition of bicycle under s. 316.003(2), F.S., includes
    motorized bicycles propelled by a combination of human power
    and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at
    a speed of not more than 20 mph on level ground. Bicycles and
    motorized bicycles, as defined above, are not registered or titled.
    Engine kits for bicycles are not new and there are a variety of kits
    available. If a gas engine kit is installed on a bicycle, which is
    not rated in excess of 2 brake horsepower and not capable of
    propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 mph on level
    ground, the vehicle would fall within the classification of a
    moped and be required to be registered as a moped. If the gas
    motor or top speed exceeds that for a moped, then the vehicle
    should be classified as a motorcycle. There are other
    requirements that must be met to be classified as a motorcycle such
    as frame assembly and safety features. The operator of a gas
    powered bicycle (moped) is required to follow the rules of the
    road and safety equipment requirements of sections 316.208,
    316.2085 and 316.211, Florida Statutes. The agent should also
    direct the customer to law enforcement if there are any questions as
    to where the motorized bicycle can be used."

    c. I agree with you, no registration, no license is required.

    Lets ride!

    :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011
  7. Gene

    Gene Member

    Thanks for all the info. I have to say I am glad I have a tag. But this entire thing is really nuts. How can pdfs change so rapidly? What is the point of all of this. I wish we could get an authority to speak on the subject

    Lets stay with this as frustrating as it can be.

    So just to make it simple at this time
    a gas powered under 50 cc motorized bicycle does not need a tag.

    and it is not considered a motor vehicle Correct?

    But somehow you need a drivers license to ride a bicycle with a motor.

    I am not trying to be funny but if what I just said is true How can that be? LOL
     
  8. sangesf

    sangesf Banned

    Read my post above...
    Answer all those questions for me.
    Including where all these PDF's are located?
    Edit: the revisions page for the procedural documents is found here....
    http://www3.flhsmv.gov/DMV/Proc/Revisions/revisions.cfm
    I would suggest adding your info to recieve updates.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011
  9. whoa thats pretty cool, I hope Cali does this aswell. Well as for my ride today at a lowrider show goin on at a local park, The police were all over and even checked my bike out. I was rideing in the opposite direction of the squad car:helmet: I then passed them after a about 15 feet i then turned my head (no mirrors oops..(soon!) and they were now behind me i watched them pass me and that was it!:sweatdrop: maybe they had bigger fish to fry is what I told my bro as we split the scene.
     
  10. sangesf

    sangesf Banned

    Here's another question...
    Florida statutes say, in order to ride an electric bike, you have to be 16.
    Well, no such law is written for a "gas powered" bicycle... So does that mean, an 8 year old can ride a gas powered bicycle, doing 40mph in the road, while a 15 year old can't ride an electric bike doing 10mph in that same road?

    That makes no sense....
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011
  11. Gene

    Gene Member

    Ok so they changed the pdf originally on 3/15 on 3/17 and then in April on 20 So at the moment you are riding what is considered a bicycle regardless of motor under 50 cc and all the other stuff.

    I did add my self to the pdf updates.

    Yes I am telling you that your electric bicycle needs a DL. It certainly appears that way. You can't possibly need a DL for a bicycle because as the PDF clearly states it is still a bicycle. ANd yes you need to check the pdf at all times LOL but AT THE MOMENT if you violate the pdf you are guilty of violating a bicycle law not any other. So I think you dont need a DL. based on what we have here. I do understand all your scenarios and they make sense but what is not there in the first place cannot be a reason for a DL. Actually it makes motorized bikes ok on bike paths as well. What gets me is how these rules can change by the week.
     
  12. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member

    I think i'm going to request a DL for my roller blades.

    lol!!!

    :)
     
  13. Nuttsy

    Nuttsy Member

    Okay, I'm gonna chime in here and muddy the waters even further. The definition of MOPED still has not changed. And if you look on page 4 of that same document you'll see the definition and the fact that a moped IS registered. Even in the face of the specific example of the bicycle with the added motor at the end of the document, the fact remains that as soon as you slap a motor on one of these puppies, it becomes a moped by statutory definition. Which I would believe trumps the procedural document cited for registration. Just my opinion.

    Note too that the referenced example states that the officer should steer the applicant to the local police to see where it could be ridden. My bet is that they (police) would tell you, "private property only". Or, "not on public roads".
    So as I see it, it's back to square 1--they should be registered--tax collector's office won't do it!?!?
     
  14. sangesf

    sangesf Banned

    I think you missed my point in that last question..
    Given that scenario, it should be obvious....
    Of course an 8 year old shouldn't be allowed to ride a 30mph capable gas powered bicycle.
    According to those that think that just because you can't register a gas powered bike, that you don't need a license, then I could possibly add a 250cc motorcycle engine, now since I can't register it, I don't need a license now and my 8 year old could take it out on the road and do 110mph.. Well guess what.. Not gonna happen.. Think about it...
    So there's only two possibilities, either...
    1.) You need a license.
    Or
    2.) Since you can't register it for use on the road, it's not allowed on the road at all.
    (You can't register a normal bicycle either, but we all know you are allowed to use a normal bicycle on the road)

    Unless you can come up with another possibility, it looks like #1 is it.
     
  15. Gene

    Gene Member

    Well no argument with what you are saying BUT there is the under 50 cc limit to keep in mind. It certainly would be a lot easier to get a tag and be done with it , which is exactly what I did. But I don't think this situation is as clear as it was on March 15th. Frankly I am not sure what this all means. I think it makes sense that you have a DL BUT again I see where it can be interpreted as one is not necessary since it remains a bicycle. I think the issue with the moped , which is exactly how I registered my bike, has to deal with the production mopeds rather than bicycles. My strong point getting my tag was it was a homemade moped. I did not speak of it being a bicycle with a motor. The only caveat I was questioned about was if it had pedals. So it seems to me we continue to be in the same limbo we started in. Those with no DL will rationalize no need for one , Those to cheap to get a Tag will rationalize one is not needed , and those remaining will still question the entire matter endlessly LOL
     
  16. q999

    q999 Member

    I have not been stopped ridding ,turning heads, in Brandon
    and I have read a lot about the subject ,my two cents:
    less than 20 mph and less than 2.5hp no gears , that is an assisting motor /still a bicycle / bicycle laws are set by county .
    My county seems to allow scooters 49cc and under to go unmolested :) no tag no license no registration, ...but then i could be wrong and ill be begging my way out of whatever...

    the dot had all kinds of regulations about moped manufacturing , dot brake stopping and lighting,ect
    all giving reasons why most motorized bicycles should not pass dot requirements to be classified as a mopeds or motorcycles acceptable for street use.,
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  17. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member

    I too have my MB registered so as to avoid any issues.

    So do you still go around with your tag or not?

    "Say hey children... what does it all mean?"

    :)
     
  18. wbuttry

    wbuttry Member

    Missouri and a lot of other states are like that they wanna make sure you know what you are doing anyway i think you need a drivers license with any thing that has a gas motor look you think they are gonna let you go with out some kind of state id and id cards arent good enough they wanna know you know how to drive and if you are suspended that is a punishment for what you did wrong why should they let you by with driving a vehicle with a motor on it while suspended thats like giving a drunk his keys and say have fun come on get real
     
  19. sangesf

    sangesf Banned

    I wish they would make it so that 20mph and under no matter whether it's gas or electric, then you don't need a license and 20-30mph, then a moped or regular license and over 30mph a motorcycle license..

    Make that uniform throughout the entire country (make a fed law), and then no issues anywhere you go.

    Just my .02

    P.S. We all know that registration is just a way to make money for the state.
     
  20. occchopperfl

    occchopperfl Member

    I agree that the police may tell you "private property only". Thats why I got my tag and registration last year.

    This is how I got it, and it was registered as a Moped:

    Provide to Tag Office the Following:

    a. Bicycle Year
    b. Brand
    c. Color
    d. Bicycle Serial Number
    - (Usually found on the bottom of the main crank or by the rear tire chain stays)
    - (the tag office then makes it your VIN, NOT me or you, your local Tax Collector - Registration - Tag Office does it.)
    - (the tag office DID NOT ask for an engine serial number)
    e. cc/ brake HP - (your engine should be no more than 50cc, and 2 brake HP)

    Just in case:
    f. Receipts, if any for engine and bicycle. - (don't provide, have it just in case tag office asks)
    g. there may be more thats required, (ie: Affidavit of ownership?) However, thats a. - e. is all that I needed to get a tag and registered in about 10 minutes.

    It seems clear that they WONT allow registration and tags now, as of 04/20/2011.

    My facts were FULLY DISCLOSED to my local tax collectors/tag office a year ago.

    (I guess if anyone wanted to try to get a tag now, - not that I am suggesting it, one would state the SIMPLE facts as above, and NOT talk about a gas motorized bicycle, but talk about a MOPED being registered.)

    :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2011
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