full staton or homebuilt

Discussion in 'Rack Mounted Engines' started by appye, Jul 24, 2008.

  1. appye

    appye Guest

    I am weighing the pros and cons of either spending the extra money on a full staton kit, or going with a staton 3:11 compact gearbox, mounting it with my existing GEBE straps and using a disc brake mount courtesy of andyinchville1...

    If I decide to go with the 3.11 and the disc brake sprocket setup, I don't mind having to spin a chain while pedaling with the engine off, but I don't want to have to spin the gearbox as well. I also like the idea of the engine spinning down to an idle while I coast downhill. Are there freewheels available for the drive shaft sprocket itself? If these are available, does Staton sell them? If not, who? This would probably be the cheaper route for me...

    Full Staton:
    I did not know until just a few minutes ago that the regular staton kit comes with a hub setup for DUAL freewheels. This is all well and good, but I currently have a 9 speed CASSETTE on my bike, not a freewheel. Are there 9 speed freewheels available? Adapters for cassettes? If not, would I also have to purchase a new shifter to accommodate whatever multispeed freewheel I can find that will work with my setup? I need multispeed on the back, but perhaps 9 speeds are not necessary, all I really need is the range, not so much the finer step-through (or whatever it is called) ... Suggestions?

  2. DetonatorTuning

    DetonatorTuning Active Member


    the 3.11 drive has a 5/8 outshaft the same as the big unit, so, the shaft adapter to freewheel that Staton sells would work just the same i'd think.

    since the gearbox is bewteen the wheel and the clutch without freewheeling you would be turning it while pedaling.

    being able to coast without engine breaking is a great advantage and is worth strong consideration.

    Statons hub is freewheel only, no adapters that i'm aware of. the simple and easy way is to buy a complete wheel from Staton and outfit it with an 8 speed freewheel, then sell your current wheel. oyu won't need to get diff. shifting parts, you just won't have that last gear anymore, you can choose if you want to give the top or bottom gear back there.

    don't forget that there are several freewheel gears that can be mixed and matched on the 18.75 drive output shaft and left side freewheel to "tune" the final overall ratio.

    do your due dilligence, even if it takes you a couple extra weeks you'll be happier in the end.

    some wheels are not worth re-inventing.

  3. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Can you get the required extra 6-7 to 1 reduction in the chain drive to the rear sprocket?
  4. appye

    appye Guest

    duivendyk: I would get the further reduction by running a 72 tooth gear on the wheel with a 9-14 tooth on the drive gear ...

    Steve: This is good news! It seems that now I must choose between a proven kit with a freewheel at the hub (more expensive, plus I would have to find a freewheel gearset for the pedal side) or my own design. The latter would be cheaper, except that I would have to find a decent disc brake hub, since my current hub does not have the mount. Also, it might not have enough room on the drive shaft to adapt TWO freewheels... I plan on having two different drive gears and a tensioner, similar to (but cruder for a while, I don't mind stopping and backing up the bike to change gears) to kerf's setup.

    By saying that some wheels are not worth reinventing, are you recommending I spend the extra money on the full setup? Admittedly, I am probably only saving a couple hundred bucks at the most. Plus, I would then still have the rest of the GEBE setup sitting around for me to put on ANOTHER bike!

    But then, I wouldn't be able to say "yes" when people ask me if I designed the thing myself! AAAAArrrrg! Lose bragging rights??? I got me a decision to make!
  5. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Are you sure such large sprockets,around 11" diameter ! are available and that they will fit the bike ?
  6. Warner

    Warner Member

    My bike had the cassette type gearstack on the back, too. No biggie...when I ordered the rear wheel from Staton, I also had them install the correct type freewheel onto their hub (for an extra $15) It works fine with my rear derailer.....no problems. I need to adjust both of my derailers, but all the derailer does is guide the chain so how can that work with the cassette style and NOT work with the freewheel style?


    PS - I can't tell you how nice it is to be able to roll down a hill at 30mph with the engine at idle and the freewheel not providing ANY drag on the system. I'll even sometimes accelerate to 27 or so and then coast up to a stop sign while the engine idles.....pretty good setup.

    PPS - My cassette type gearstack was only a 7 speed unit, which is what the freewheel from Staton is. the teeth counts are a bit different, but it works fine.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2008
  7. appye

    appye Guest

    duivendyk: I was thinking about using #35 chain if going with the 3.11, which would give me more like an 8" diameter gear ... I am seriously considering the regular staton drive, however.

    Warner: It is my understanding that different speed bicycles use different chains. When I bought a new chain a couple months ago, the guy at the bike shop explained this to me after asking if I had a 9 or a 7 speed on the back. As long as I get a freewheel that is compatible with my existing front sprockets and chain, I am happy. BTW, how many teeth are there on the smallest gear on your freewheel? I guess I can just go to the site and count probably.
  8. DetonatorTuning

    DetonatorTuning Active Member

    my only intention is to encourage you to spend the time to really THINK thru all the aspects of each path.

    there just might be MORE advantages to one over the other in practice and utility.

    it's all on you,
  9. Warner

    Warner Member

    Ah...that may be true! I was going from a 7 to a 7 so maybe that's why I didn't have a problem? Not sure on that, really. The smallest cog on the freewheel from Staton is 13 teeth, while my stock (cassette type) one was 11 teeth.

  10. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    All is fair in electronics,war and MB persuits,think things through though (including the pesky details).I have found out that mechanical gotchas are usually of the nasty sort,that is, of the "up the creek minus a paddle variety".Good luck
  11. appye

    appye Guest

    duivendyk: Yeah, I have been riding a GEBE for about a year and as far as being an every day driver, I have never been able to go more than a month or so without some kind of thing or other breaking down... Now with this much stronger engine, I am going to make it as overkill and solidly built as possible. Motorcycle spokes, chain drive, freewheels, solid tires, super heavy duty rim, the whole nine yards. I am about to dump a good $600 into this beast.
  12. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Not everything out of Staton is necessarily bullet proof.Read about SirJakesus travails with the Staton NV rearwheel.I have one like that too.If you get the left drive variety you can get a standard heavyduty wheel,is that chain you plan to use compatible with the left derailleur setup you were considering?
  13. appye

    appye Guest

    Yeah, I pretty much decided to stay away from the NuVinci just for that reason. I will check out SirJakesus stories though... It is fragile in the same way that internally geared hubs are. Lots of small moving parts that don't stand up very well to potholes and such. My basic philosophy for this rebuild is thick metal and strong, strong, strong. The GP460 will compensate and still be much faster than my tanaka32cc was anyway. If this takes away a few MPG, so be it.
  14. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    I don't know really wether the NV is rugged or not ,the jury is out on that,nobody has reported how it stands up to extended high speed operation.It's certainly a simpler than these modern 4-7 speed planetary geared hubs.The old 3 speed ones were not bad, at all,as long as you did not shift them under load,and kept them lubricated,they were quite durable
  15. appye

    appye Guest

    I Dont Know If I Agree With That. I Had One Explode On Me After About Three Months On My GEBE. I Dont Think I Will Ever In Down That Road Again. Ten Miles At Seven Miles Per Hour With A Screeching Gear Set Is No Fun.
  16. Warner

    Warner Member

    It wasn't the NV hub that failed SirJakesus.....it was the spokes, and it appeared to be due to the angle at which they were coming out of the rim.....

  17. appye

    appye Guest

    I remember that thread... I do seem to remember reading somewhere, maybe even on staton's site about how the thing is better suited for smooth roads and is great so long as you don't go on rough terrain. I am pretty sure I am going to stay away from it anyway. I don't really think I need more than two speeds really. A nice low gear for hills and mountain riding and a medium gear for everything else.
  18. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    The NV is something of an overkill with it's wide 3.5 ratio ( it was designed to replace rear hubs or derailleurs),1.5-2.0 would be quite adequate for most appl. What you can get with the Kerf derailleur arrangement is 16/13=1.23 which is on the skimpy side.19/16/13 would be much better with 1.46 and 1.23, problem is you can't get three sprockets on the Staton adapter (unless you grind down the sprockets which is pretty ifi).Of course 1.23 is better than nothing,it seems to work for him.I believe you have the same engine.
  19. Warner

    Warner Member

    JJ, do you have a link to the info about Kerf's deraileur? I'd be interested in seeing that arrangment.....


  20. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    The thread is "two speed Staton",go to members list, look up Kerf,and this particular thread.