GEBE Dooz and Not Dooz - Reveal Your Trix Bike-Wyz!!!!

Discussion in 'Rack Mounted Engines' started by Hive, Jul 6, 2007.

  1. Hive

    Hive Guest

    ADD EZ INSTALLING HINTS AND RUNNING YOUR BIKES WITH GEBE MOUNT SYSTEM:

    Basics (and see also the "sticky" on How GEBE systems work.)

    Let's keep it simple suggestions as starters - tell it here!.

    GEBE kits allow 100% free wheel pedaling.

    Bike having wheel with internal transmission shifter cable entering axle from end will not work. Will have to switch trans or go to coaster only.

    Be sure to measure bike correctly - best not to buy bike with incorrect measurements; You need 1.25 inches from closest spoke at point 7.25 inches forward of rear axle - see GEBE site. Guessing seldom works. Ask first.

    Thin (700) wheels and road bikes are not really safe or comfortable, though they may be ones you have. You are better off finding a used cruiser or MTB and going from there. Used MTB are all over the place and cheap.

    Engines, yours or GEBE are all better off vertical or very close to vertical to max fuel fill.

    High horsepower is not a big deal. You do not really want to move a cruiser or MTB faster than 15 - 20 mph; bad for bike, dangerous for you. Engine weight and noise are factors. Need speed, get a different rig.

    Be sure Fuel Tube extends all the way to bottom of tank. It is not good for 2-cycles to run dry and you want to use all available fuel. You can find fuel tubes at local mower dealers. Not difficult to remove tank and R & R the tube.

    Only start and run engine with drive belt in place, per GEBE.

    Run 2-cycles as recommended. Rich break-in formulas are urban myths. Engines are chrome-lined and built to last.

    Break-in is 1,500 to 2,000 hours.

    Two brakes. Coaster plus or any other sets.

    Larger tires , say 2.25 size can cause problem, BUT, you can place SS washers between drive gear and spindle to move belt outward; and move engine around on mount per GEBE site, so belt is not rubbing on drive ring or tire. I ran engine with big Bontragers and no problem, but I guess the rule should be only as wide as practical and that may be limited to 2.00 inches, so extra tweaking is not needed or will downgrade performance. Am using 1.95 Armadillo now and it is perfect. Comfy ride and no adjustments needed. It is also bulletproof.

    36-spoke rear wheel is best option and these are available from GEBE, prevents slippage of drive ring more likely with 34 spokes.

    High rev starts without pedal assist will also cause spoke problems and slippage, I understand.

    Longer axle - 8.5" minimum is recommended, so you may use SS washers between nuts and lock mount to axle mount nut, etc. If you use a 9 incher, maybe ss acorn end nuts will protect the threads best. My 8.5 is nutted to ends.

    The main engine axle support can be easily spread and drilled for additional support bars, lights, etc.

    The single engine support bar can be any material and can be bent as needed and mounted to seat post, cross bar supports, seat bolts, etc. Normally, the two strips that they supply will cover most applications.

    Bolts supplied by GEBE can be replaced with SS.

    Rear fender may not have enough clearance under engine with fat tires, and this can sometimes be fixed by drilling hole in fender where nut is located - rare.

    Drive ring is self-centering, if you get the spokes lined up correctly. I used WD-40 (not the spray) to install drive ring and wiped off, but soap needs to be washed off to prevent rust and problems with painted spokes. Need to reduce potential slippage of ring.

    Replace throttle and stop button clips with SS hose clamps.

    There is site on install on CF bike here: http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dci...cumbent/moto_bike_page/motorized_bicycle.html and another by Lee here: http://lee.org/blog/archives/2005/08/10/motorized-bicycle/. First shows problem solving and logic to compare to your situation and how you might do differently. Second site has loads of links and info. Good stuff to review.

    Pedaling bike under power is what lots of people do. Steep hills will often require pedal assist.

    Look for separate thread on making throttle cables.
     

  2. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    Here is the LEE link, from N.Mexico, or it is somewhere in cooltools archive:

    http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001377.php#more
     
  3. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    You learn something new EVERY day, and this is a DON'T.

    Don't by a 3 speed/coaster brake type cruiser AND expect you can changed to heavier 12 gauge spokes.

    I ordered the bike, picked it up today, and just found out it has an expensive internal hub, could cost $100 to change out to heavier spokes, can't be drilled for re-lacing. :???:

    Learn as you go, this will be the first and last 3 speed I build for someone.

    I'll sell the kit to them, show them how, but I want to stand behind the builds, and 16 gauge has proven too weak to handle the torque.

    AND, I read the discussion about 3 speeds BEFORE I ordered, I thought the issue was mainly usage, not axle length.

    http://www.motoredbikes.com/viewtopic.php?t=1818

    Consensus seems to point to either single speeds or seven speeds.

    Luckily, its for a lady who won't be going fast, with the mountain gear installed, and I'll take extra care on the spoke ring installation.
     
  4. Hive

    Hive Guest

  5. Timcycle

    Timcycle Guest

    Here's my GEBE

    Here's my experience blog.

    http://goldeneaglebikeengine.blogspot.com

    My bike is a Trek 850 about 9 years old.
    Other than a gear hub issue everything is fine.

    Oh yes, also my brake cable is center set and so is the seat brace bar so I had to bend a little.

    IF YOU CAN, order the steel spoke rear wheel rim. GEBE will install the proper bolt and drive ring for you.

    Also, recommend a seat post shock absorber. I still have not got one yet but will.

    .
     
  6. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    If you are going to build bikes for others as a hobby, there are 4 main pieces of equipment which will enable you to save a LOT of frustration.

    I got my basic bike stand for about $120 through my bike shop, including shipping. The only thing it lacks is one of those trays to put parts and tools in a handy spot, but it flips the bike over for easier wheel installations and brake adjusting...

    [​IMG]

    Before I got into serious advertising for business, I had a "broken" garden fork (one prong always survives), attached at counter height, to keep a wheel off the ground while I adjusted things...
    [​IMG]

    But now that the newest 25cc's have the motor attached with 4 small Allen's bolts, instead of the single mounting bolt on the old drive shaft models, the bike stand comes in REALLY HANDY when attaching the entire motor and axle mount on a bike in one fell swoop...

    [​IMG]

    Second thing to have is a table vise, mine's antique. Before GEBE added the 90 degree angles AND increased the gauge of the straps, there was a lot of bending to make a good attachment, especially to the fender brace, but the angles make that type installation easier nowadays....

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    BTW: this pic is for demo purposes, it is best to heat the newer heavy gauge strap if a bend is necessary...
    [​IMG]

    I picked up a simple bench grinder for $35 at a flea market. Sometimes a quarter inch of the strap has to be removed to reattach a fender properly, and when using radiator hose clamps to attach the throttle, the end has to be narrowed to slip into the throttle's "slot". You can just take the hose clamp to the grinder and take a bit off both sides, thread it into that slot, then pull all the way thru with needlenose....

    [​IMG]

    My last purchase was a small air compressor from Northern Hydrolics, about $70. I got so frustrated one day seating the tires into the rim, especially inflating/deflating/inflating/deflating those slime tubes three times or more, using a hand pump, that I broke down and got this small compressor.

    It also will be necessary handy if you need to blow out carbon buildup in an engine after a few thousand miles ...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    If you take a pencil and push it into the exhaust, you will find there is a screen.

    Things are running smoothly until one day, after maybe 700 miles, you start losing horsepower, hiccuping or having coughing type performance.

    The screen is clogged, theoretically you are supposed to remove the screen, brush it clean and replace it.

    I toss them out right off the bat.

    [​IMG]

    They are attached via a "collar". Take your needlenose and grab the very end of the exhaust, then pull a bit at the 6'clock, 3o'clock and 9 o'clock, the collar should pull free with little effort.

    The collar is VERY narrow, maybe 2-3 millimeters, so barely bite in with the pliers.
     
  8. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    There are basically 3 places to attach the front strap.

    1. to the fender brace, which is where I do my bike of choice, the Sun 7 speeds.

    2. tap a hole into the bike frame, secure with a very small bolt and loctite the newly threaded hole.

    [​IMG]

    THERE IS NO WORSE FEELING, than to be cruising down the road, and something snap or give or pull away, have that strap "come loose" and the engine slip backwards, pulling the throttle to full blast.

    For insurance, add a zip tie somehow, somewhere, to be a backup for the strap.

    [​IMG]

    Oh, the third way to attach the strap probably is the one where no zip tie is necessary. You ream out the hole at one end of the strap, twist it 90 degrees, and attach it to the seat post, where that bolt is a bit larger than the hole.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. DougC

    DougC Guest

    When I got the drive ring on the Worksman wheel I found that there were several high and low spots of the drive ring visible as the wheel rotated. I didn't want to take off the ring and try again because I didn't know how well the self-cut notches would take it.

    What I found was that it's possible to smooth out the high and low spots by moving the ring around on the spokes. You put your hands together and push down with your thumbs, while pulling outwards with the outside of your hands, and you can get the ring to move a bit on the rim. A couple minutes of fine-tuning and it was possible to get the ring so well centered that I couldn't see any more definite high or low spots at all.
    [​IMG]
    ~
     
  10. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    A customer just called, saying one of his engines was having a time cranking, and I e-mailed him this response about a "fluke/fix" on the kill button.

    This happened once, I've never been a fan of the "kill" button that comes with the kit.

    If an engine fails to start, disconnect that wire at the engine and see what happens.

    If it cranks, that means the wire, right beneath the button on the handlebar, may have cut through the plastic coating due to vibration.

    To fix it, take a plastic straw, cut a small piece off the end, then cut a small "shim". Loosen the screw a tad and slip that shim between the wire and metal and retighten the screw.

    That fixed my "kill" button permanently, but when I carry my tent I can't get to the button, so I just got into the practice of reaching back and flooding out the motor.
     
  11. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    Talked to that customer mentioned above, he said he learned the trick to getting them started in two or three pulls.

    However he wanted 2 mufflers, so I called and talked to Dennis.

    Mufflers are now available straight from the manufacturer-
    1 800 4JETPRO, ask for Dino.

    Apparantly JetPro is in California, and those small aftermarket items are getting too expensive to ship, for middlemen to carry them and reship one/two at a time.

    Makes cents to me.

    [​IMG]

    The two tricks to muffler installation are to toss that screen/spark arrestor mentioned above, and buying some of that "welder in a tube" type stuff, the kind that sets in 24 hours.

    The only modification is a 35 cent machine bolt, 1/2" longer than the one holding on the red cover, where the brace attaches to.
     
  12. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    choosing a bike/sprocket

    This is more directed at GEBE prospects, and experienced riders will understand readily what I'm trying to say about choosing the right bike for mounting an engine.

    When you are riding up a hill, (and I've been timed bottoming out the one below my driveway at 45+ mph), as you climb the grade using a 7 speed (or any variation thereof 10/14/21speeds etc.) when you slow to approx. 25-27 mph your pedals can "catch up" to the engine, your legs can easily pump (no sweating or exertion) and normally you start gaining speed before reaching the top.

    However, if you choose a single speed/coaster brake model, you are going to wait a lot longer to "catch up", slowing to maybe 15 mph before you can help.

    Plus, coaster brakes take longer to stop than hand brakes.

    Sam's Rant warns you away from 3 speed internal hubs, and the bike I just built for a lady 70 miles south won't be in as hilly a terrain as around Rough Edge.

    She is going to use it for exercise, and the rev is so low (maybe 12 mph?) that the engine is super quiet, but she won't be able to exercise at 20 mph like she could have with a 7 geared sprocket.
     
  13. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    Starr was wondering why GEBE doesn't stock axles....

    They don't need to because J & B Importers supplies MOST bikeshops, I think they have 15 US warehouses, parts usually arrive the next day.

    And it really benefits everyone if bike/bikeparts issues are handled with your local shop, even if like mine, "local" is 30 miles away.

    Since the outset of MB.com, 12 gauge rear wheels have been recommended, but GEBE's USMade/Swiss strung/perfectly mounted spokerings is the "other" choice, has better bearings, weighs less, doesn't rust.

    Wheel Master (REAR) item number 6459 is for 7 speed cassettes. It takes a special socket to loosen a cassette, so if you take your old wheel with you, the bike guy MIGHT switch it in seconds...Mine run around $35.

    When I put a rear wheel on, with punctureproof tube, liner, on a steel wheel, it weighs over 9 pounds.

    GEBE's with NO beefing up on the tire/tube weighs 4 or 5 pounds. But I'll race em any day!!!

    In my opinion, bike engine companies have to concentrate on THAT aspect, and bike suppliers deal with anything that pertains to parts like axles. A bike warranty is void the minute you modify it for an engine, and liability (engines AND ridership) will keep the big boys like WAL-MART out of the business.

    The only way to fully understand the future is to do it yourself, and I came in knowing nothing about either engines OR bikes, screwed up many a derailleur by unscrewing the wrong direction.

    Having a local bike shop helps, no matter how the Lycra crowd feels about us.

    If a prospective GEBE customer wants a "no hassles" bike at a reasonable price, choose the SUN Retro-7 (speed), with Wheel Master rear end setup. Brand spanking new, spokes true and bearings packed. Jump on and confidently ride hundreds of miles into the sunset.

    No drimmel needed for the rear fender. Curved handlebars for comfort, excellent welds, up to a $100 less than Schwinn.

    If a prospective GEBE customer wants a "few hassles", choose a bike with tires between 1.5-1.95 inches. There may be frame clearance/spokering issues, axle swaps, but nothing insurmountable.

    If the kickstand is on that rear axle, add another 35% to the hassle factor. I only use bikes with centermounted kickstands.

    If a prospective GEBE customer wants a "lot of hassles", ignore all the experienced MB.com advise, choose a 3 speed or "quick release anything" and expect the thing to slide on in less than an hour. Ain't gonna happen, and you'll be shopping for another bike pretty quick.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2007
  14. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    No fat knobbies, and a bit about brakes

    Per Starr: beware of MTB tires with too much "knobbiness" on the sidewalls. Deep grabby mountain tires are less comfortable than cruiser tires on the rear anyway.

    Per Hive:
    I'm gonna advise 7 speeds is best, and coasters alone don't make the best heavy duty commuter set up, there are times when you do a Fred Flintstone/handbraking/sliding into home combo, which can't be had on Granddad's Western Flyer...

    Anything over 7speeds is wasting the left handed side on the handlebar space, which could start operating your blinkers and /or speakerless cell phone...
     
  15. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    And the best use of our time is to ask dumb questions publically,

    I guess you noticed I'm just a regular member now like yourselves, so PM's about bikes or problems should be posted out here in the open, maybe we will build a "problem" thread, but I think everything is pretty well covered somewhere.

    I'm not in the R/S 35 camp except for tricycles, so the more I see those being the common denominator, I'm glad I'm sticking with the 2 cycles...

    Above I mentioned the "no hassles" and "few hassles", and if you measure the cost of a "few", I'm thinking $50 is a fair price for upgrading the axle to the proper width to start out with. It's a pay me now, or pay me later situation.

    Only the widest axle will give you a zero hassle experience with a rackmount.

    Only avoiding constant removal of the rear wheel will you avoid crossthreading.

    SOMETIMES it isn't the axles threads ruined, but the axle nuthreads, they cost a quarter or a buck, I dunno, I have extras all over the shop floor, toss em like peanut hulls.
     
  16. Hive

    Hive Guest

    Throttle

    I finally installed a throttle that is much better than the plastic trigger units supplied by GEBE. It is a Sinz brake lever with internal return spring, to assist the tension on the motor throttle assy.

    I bought on eBay from www.diamondedgesports.com , in red; they also come in black. It has great adjustment capability and works well with my 112 inch cable and the Tanaka 3300. Cost was $16. shipped.
     

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  17. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    This is a "work in progress", still getting the bugs out of it, and only comes into play if you plan on building a lot of bikes, many which will need a little "crimping" to get clearance for the spokering.

    I bought a "pipe flaring tool" (the $10 NOT the $20 model).

    I ground down the pointed center peice, for more surface area, this being the side which will do the crimping.

    I slip it onto the frame tube, close the gap on the other "pronged side" with a blank of metal (the second attempt I wrapped it in black duct tape), then squeeze a crimp a little wider than necessary. Takes about 3-4 pressure points to get a good clearance.

    It does only the inside, but needs "cutting down to size" to work best.

    Like I said, I'm getting the bugs out of this tool.
     

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  18. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    REVISING AND EXTENDING MY REMARKS-

    2 days riding the Greygeezer 21 speed has me rethinking my 7 speed advise.

    Man that sucka will fly up a hill in 21st gear, with the Tanaka 33/highway 13 tooth.

    I was GAINING SPEED on some pretty steep grades, or at least staying in the upper 20's mph.
     

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  19. Hive

    Hive Guest

    Latest Tweek - Rear Light

    Little Trek rear lamp, attached to 90-degree extender (common item in bike shops) and attached to the GEBE cover wing-nut fastener.
     

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  20. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    straps, L brackets and zipties emphasis

    Pic one is what we are talking about. Check the 4 holes against the engine mount bolt 100% of them I have worked with, on the new, heavier strap needed a slight reaming with a bit. The L bracket was "supposed to be" an elegant solution to attaching the strap to a fender hanging brace.

    But Pic 2 is an old install on a drilled/tapped hole in an Avalon frame, bent to fit.

    Pic 3/4 is yesterday, getting the Avalon framemounted, up and running. Locktite blue is advised on a framemounted strap install, but I feel secure just using fingernail polish.

    Pic 5 is the Greygeezer, the hole is already there, so L bracket, fingernail polish and whoola.

    I put the L bracket/strap on first, let it point in the air until the enginemount is put on, when I push the strap down and fit it onto the best fit REbored hole.

    NOTE- I don't sell the Avalon, the cr*ppy brakes are a selling point for better Sun Cruisers. I use it as a demo bike and new engine break-in bike.

    I also threw away every clear zip tie I had, only use Myron's (Heaven 5 7) advised black nowadays.

    Always open to new and better ideas.
     

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