GEBE from friction convert, and I AIN'T GOING BACK!

Discussion in 'Rack Mounted Engines' started by grinningremlin, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    I finally got the used GEBE mounted to my Sun EZ sport, good lord it was a bear to get on there, I had to fashion some brackets cut off a metal motor mount from an old Akai reel to reel to make the main strap fit, but I had none of the belt alignment problems I've read on here.The main reason I had to switch was I bought some high dollar wood fenders and could not see cutting the rear just to use the FD, man am I glad I switched.Power in the low end is about the same (RS EH035) but I buck the wind/hills better and my top speed feels more like I'm using a 40cc and the engine is still breaking in.
    The bike is light enough to lift without strain again, and the coasting, without that scrubber on there the bike rides like there's nothing holding it back.Working very well with a unit that has about 5000 miles on it; I had to change the bearing closest to the engine on the BMP FD a couple times now, I think the heat wears it quicker, plus the road and rubber dust seemed to collect there, I don't know how well "sealed" those bearings are when encountering that type of abuse.
    All in all, GEBE is very impressive.
     

  2. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    Do you have the HD wheel on the rear? If not watch your spokes for your safety, checkem every ride.
     
  3. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    Darwin, how wise or unwise do you think this is; I'm using the stock wheel (14g spokes) and was worried exactly about what you said, so I made a simple lattice-work of zipties so the ring would pull on every spoke on both sides.My thought was even though the ring is only snapped on a few on one side, if they pull hard enough to bend/break that they would start pulling on the sprocket side spokes, did an 80 miler the other day with no probs.I have a HD wheel on the way in case I'm full of silly ideas, wouldn't be the first time.
     
  4. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    Never owned a GEBE kit, wish I had one. From what I read alot of folks move up to the gebe HD wheel because of problems with spokes tearing up. Some oem wheels are better than others. If it were me i'd have the HD wheel.
     
  5. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    I'm going to be eating my words, I'm in the process of hooking the BMP to my Bridgestone MTB for a farm bike.
    I've learned tons about the GEBE riding it, I believe it's not the gauge of spoke but ,making sure the sheave doesn't shift back and forth on the spokes.I've had zero wheel problems since I first posted this, and gone about 600 miles.

    The first used GEBE I bought came with the HD wheel, the sheave had notches in where the belt had slammed it over and over like a dull knife, I believe that's where the breakage occurs.
    The latest used GEBE I bought came with the HD wheel, with sheave attached by GEBE.They zip-tie the spokes at the X, and put "gorilla glue" in each notch.So I glued my notches, X tied my spokes and did my lattice work thingo; I drilled extra holes in the sheave so with zip ties it pulls on each spoke, both sides, and the whole wheel feels "solid".
    I'll soon be taking off the EHO, hooking up a Tanaka PF4000 to the 14g wheel and crossing my fingers.
     
  6. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    Good luck don't get any speeding tickets........another problem with cheap wheels is the nuts tightening the spokes are made of brass and the threads are soft vs ss and the spokes pull out and get wrapped up in the wheel.
     
  7. nightrider

    nightrider New Member

    I can't imagine zip ties doing anything. The old technique practiced by racers was to wrap the spokes with copper wire then solder them. Zip ties won't do anything. The spokes will just slide against each other since they're at angles.

    All bicycle wheels are built with either brass or aluminum nipples. Aluminum nipples are softer and their threads are more likely to strip, so they're recommended only for racing and even then only if used by experienced wheelbuilders. Brass nipples are not a sign of "cheap wheels." Spokes failing at the rim are almost unknown.
     
  8. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    I see your point, but I think they shorten the range of sliding, sure did make it feel more solid.I think I'll glue the X zip-ties also, I'm good with a soldering gun but don't like the permanence of solder on the spokes, in case of road repairs.
     
  9. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    On just regular bikes in my youth every spoke problem I ever had was the spoke pulling out of the nipple. None were expensive bikes back then. Seems nipples are made of silver, brass, alloys, steel. Brass is a very soft metal. I thought some were stainless but didn't see any on niagras site. Use your own judgement OP, its your risk.
     
  10. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    Yeah, no biggie.I believe it's jackrabbits/not pedaling up before engaging throttle that's 90% of spoke probs.I have a 14g velocity in the wings, so I'm game.
     
  11. nightrider

    nightrider New Member

    Virtually nobody ties and solders spokes anymore anyway. It's an archaic practice used by racers decades ago. World class road and off-road racers do just fine without it. As for the permanence if you need to do repairs, I would worry about the glued-on drive ring.

    The "regular bikes of your youth" probably had badly built wheels with poor initial tension, and were probably never trued after the bikes were bought, much like today's Walmart specials. All bikes today have brass nipples, except for some expensive racing bikes which use aluminum alloy nipples for some insignificant weight savings, or some riders who like the anodized colors that brass nipples can't have. Any expert wheelbuilder recommends against aluminum nipples. Silver nipples don't exist because they would be too soft and ridiculously expensive. There have never been steel nipples on bicycle wheels. Some motorcycles use stainless ones because of the much higher mass and speed of motorcycles, but they also have much thicker spokes.
     
  12. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    No sweat there, gorilla glue is amazing.It fills every space, effectively stopping spoke shift.A little scoring with a blade on each side of the spoke before using the 4in1 tool and they snap out fairly easy.I also don't clean or rough the spokes/sheave slots before gluing, so the little bit of dirt/grease/soap keep it from being too permanent, works more like a hard geckos foot.
    The GEBE's only downside I can see is the way the sheave is , or rather isn't attached.All it takes is a few holes, and zip-ties so it pulls on the sprocket side too.I've also thought about threaded carbon-fiber star attachments they could make to push on the rim, but a new sheave is $40 so probably not cost effective.
    Nightrider, have/do you build wheels?
     
  13. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Well-Known Member

    I think the idea of the zip tie on the spokes, is that one spoke absorbs part of the stress of the other. Some riders swear by it. Can't hurt. If it doesn't work, you didn't spend much on zip ties.
     
  14. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

  15. nightrider

    nightrider New Member

    Yes, I've laced, tensioned and trued all of my own wheels for many years. Takes a lot of time since I'm not a professional, but one new pair ever few years isn't hard. Only one broken spoke in all those years.

    Silver refers to the color, unless you think gold, black and red are also materials. "Alloy" means aluminum alloy. "Silver alloy" means aluminum nipples anodized with no color dye in the finish. No telling what those "Wheel Master" nipples really are. They're probably a cheap Chinese brand. DT Swiss, Sapim and Wheelsmith are the brands known for top quality bicycle spokes, preferred by wheelbuilders all around the world. You won't find any other brands on $15,000 racing bikes where a spoke failure would mean losing an important race, or even on any bike over $2000, unless they're types like "straight-pull" spokes that may be proprietary to a certain brand of hub, or fancy, fragile and extremely expensive carbon fiber spokes. No wheelbuilder would touch "Wheel Master" product. All three name brands offer brass nipples as standard, aluminum nipples at extra cost.
     
  16. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    That's what I wanted to hear.I've always done my own re-truing, but have been somewhat scared of lacing up a hub.Necessity/lack of $$ is forcing me to dive in.
     
  17. nightrider

    nightrider New Member

    Like I wrote, it takes time for non-professional wheelbuilders. Lacing is easy if you can visualize the pattern. Tensioning is pretty quick. Truing takes the longest, trying to get the rim straight, round and centered without messing up the tension so much that it's all over the place. I would set aside an evening or two for the entire process for each wheel. The late Sheldon Brown gave a good tutorial on his site: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html. A truing stand is a must. A dishing gauge can shorten the process considerably, but isn't really necessary.
     
  18. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    Should be a you tube vid to help show you how.
     
Loading...