Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by srdavo, Apr 7, 2009.
I'd really appreciate it if someone could explain to me the rationale behind making a balancing two-wheel side-by-side form of transport, other than the "Gee Whiz, that's neato!" factor. Honestly, why not just put a small third wheel behind, and avoid the expense and the hassle of the gyro stabilization system required?
So you can mount a LazyBoy recliner. That'll be the Cadillac model.
Seriously though, this is just carp, wrong-headed Alt. Trans.
Was it announced on April 1st?
Your Tax Dollors at work !!!!!
oh boy here we go again !!! And they thought fireing the GM ceo would fix everything !!!!
Whats next ??? are they going to make mail trucks ????
Oh wait a minute the post office is going broke too !!!!
maybe they could hire the ex GM ceo !!!!!!
Iam feeling ill I need a bailout !!!!!:jester:
It's designed for cities- fine.
...do they mean cities like New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Chicago, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh. Indianapolis, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Denver, St. Louis, Detroit, Toronto and Montreal...WHERE THEY DEAL WITH SNOW 4 MONTHS A YEAR???
...or do they mean cities like Miama, Tampa, New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Tucson, Atlanta, Washington and Las Vegas... WHERE WITHOUT AIR CONDITIONING YOU WILL BAKE 4 MONTHS A YEAR
I sure hope there are enough customers in San Diego.
HAH!! That's a trip. Good thinking Hough.
I think they should do away with the front window altogether and let people get some wind [and bugs] in their face. Then they'd understand why we're more sane than cagers. :helmet:
That'd help the southerners out, but not the ones with the snow/ice problem.
This is the gubmints idea of GM building vehicles that "people want" - but it is more like what the gubmint wants us all to drive.
The Postal Service LLV is a Grumman body on a GM compact pickup chassis and drivetrain. They are designed for a 20+ year service life. Tough as nails, but notice there are no air bags and other safety restrictions that GM must meet when they sell cars to the public. Bet they aren't subject to CAFE standards, either.
I've only heard a bit about this idea. But I haven't yet seen any reason to believe that
the "gubmint" is behind this.
I don't think I've heard anyone claiming, either, that this is going to solve all of our transportation issues. But maybe it's something that could be useful in some times and places. San Diego might be a good example.
Now it is true that soon before the Segway was introduced someone pretty well-known
(Steve Wozniak, maybe? I don't really remember.) "promised the moon". Something like "this is going to completely transform urban transportation". Yup, it was a stupid thing to say. And the Segway still isn't an important piece of our transport. Probably never will be as long as autos are as numerous as they are today.
but everyone, except the denyers, knows that we must move away from the auto. At least in it's present form. This is one of the alternatives that's going to be offered. It's likely that better alternatives will pop up in the future.
What's so wrong with that?
I was being facetious about the gubmint intervention, but I am not that far off.
I am sick and tired of hearing that GM, Ford, and Chrysler do not make cars that people want. They sure do. They sell plenty of cars, trucks, minivans and SUV's. Sure, they have relied on the truck and SUV market - but this is what Americans want. The Asian manufacturers have been trying to weasel in on the truck/SUV/minivan market for years, but the Americans simply do it better. The root of the problem is that these automakers have their own little "welfare state" in the form of UAW job banks, and retirees. They can't make money because of these costs that their competition do not have. The auto industry suffered a double whammy. Gas prices skyrocketed last year, and the economy is in recession. All automakers are suffering, not just the Americans. Almighty Toyota asked the Japanese gov't for 2 billion in loans, so things aren't so rosy for the manufacturer of the Prius. One could say that they aren't making cars people want either. (Tundra, Seqouia, Highlander, Sienna)
Now that Obama has fired the GM CEO, next step will be gubmint dictating what they think people want. They will force GM and Chrysler to get out of the truck/SUV/minivan business - essentially handing it over to the Asian automakers who will be more than happy to take it. Look for cars that drive just like econoboxes did in the 70's (0-60 times of 15+ seconds).
Nobody has asked what happens in a panic stop. Does it slide face down at 35 MPH until it hits something?
These Car companies are so big
That they have to sell like 300,000 cars a month just to break even !!!!
I think it's the scale of the operations thats the real issue..
I read that toyota has so many 2008's sitting at Long Beach that they are renting more land to store them on and cutting back by 60% the new ones coming in.
It's not just a gm problem it's the scale of it all ..
The auto industry is this Giant machine that just spits out millions of cars a year!!!!And when the folks stop buying the big machine keeps spitting them out !!!
Man I bet you will get a great deal on a 2008 next year 1/2 price maybe ???
Rejoyce it's a buyers market !!!!!! If you still have a job !!!!
I Googled "GM Segway hoax" It does indeed appear to be an April fools joke.
On what I hope is a more practical note, I wonder if it might be possible to make a bicycle shell using the technique similar to this: http://gaboats.com/
I built a boat with plywood and Dacron before I saw his site. It can be very sturdy. My concern is how it would do in a cross wind. Maybe just a fairing?
I'm willing to agree that Americans want SUVs and such. (Heck, I want one. Even though I also hate them)
And junkies want heroin.
Our society feels justified in denying the junkies what they want when the desire is for a syringe, but not when it's for an automobile that degrades our quality of life and actually threatens our survival.
Very mis-placed priorities.
And if GM were able, right now, to get private loans, then it's quite likely that the conditions would be something like, "fire Rick Wagoner and draw up a business plan that shows some possibility of competing with those other guys in the long run." To do otherwise would be to neglect their own duty, be they a bank or a President.
And, of course, a large part of our economiy's trouble has been caused by a lack of due diligence. I'm glad someone has woken up and started demanding reason to believe in the return on the money.
By the way, Renault (or maybe it was Peugeout) has a prototype in the works that looks something like this GM-Segway. The difference is that they're not bothering with the gyroscopes. They have one rear wheel and two side by sides up front. (stability). It looks like the platform is simply moped. But with a slightly more complex front end and a rudimentary cab.
If they do it right, then it's likely to be a better machine at a better price.
It won't work in Cleveland in January, of course. But it could be useful.
Also the typical UAW contract these days is about $14.00/hr without the great benefit package that they used to have. No pensions, that's for sure. And the existing pensioners will be relying on social security, and nothing else, soon enough.
I will admit that the UAW was, perhaps, 10 to 15 years late in seeing the "writing on the wall" and allowing wages to fall. But maybe that wasn't actually a mistake even then. Had they been more willing would management have merely pocketed (then wasted) the difference? I'd be willing to bet on it.
But they were not the main cause of the problem. And they'll be a very hollow whipping boy in the future.
Well, if you think the government should tell GM what kind of cars to build, then government should simply OUTLAW pickup trucks, SUV's, and minivans for the general public. Only those with a waiver from the government proving they "need" such a vehicle will be able to buy one. It seems that you believe that people are too stupid to make proper choice for themselves regarding an automobile. You think that government was justified in firing a CEO of a company. Whether Wagoner deserved to get fired was a board room decision, not a white house decision. Government has gone waaay too far here, and this is just the beginning. Our countries founders are rolling over in their graves for sure.
As far as UAW pay goes, I pulled this right from the UAW website:
"How much are current UAW auto industry wages?
In 2006 a typical UAW-represented assembler at GM earned $27.81 per hour of straight-time labor. A typical UAW-represented skilled-trades worker at GM earned $32.32 per hour of straight-time labor."
Add benefits and legacy costs and it becomes apparent why they are in trouble. (a far cry from $14/hr)
Not to belittle the importance of the factory worker, but I know experienced programmers and engineers that don't make as much as a UAW assembler.
As far as that little dweeb-mobile goes, it ain't a joke.
A bicycle with a Happy Time motor is much more stylish, practical and affordable.
RC, open your eyes to business realities. I've said this before, and I reiterate - if a business facing bankruptcy seeks a cash infusion in the form of a loan, then the lender ALWAYS gets a hefty say in the operation of the business thereafter - as quite clearly the judgement of the board and its chosen executive officers has failed in its primary fiduciary duty. In fact, they virtually always get a seat or seats on the board in furure.
Why, when the lender is government rather than some corporate or private investor, should things be done any differently? Wagoner failed most miserably, and the US government stepped up to bail GM out - wrong as that was - and is clearly entitled to make demands for firing of the fools who brought the company to that pass.
In the end, it would be better to let them go bankrupt.
No consideration is being given in these posts to the many groups of private investment firms prowling the markets. These modern day pirates have a little money to invest and feel as though they are ENTITLED to a return on it knowing full and well the market is a gamble. These firms have no interest in the health of the business down the road, they want the almighty dollar today or else! In fact many of these firms have pushed jobs out of the Country in order to expand upon profits. Blackstone is a fine example of the pukes to which I refer.
They are entitled to profits as they sit home eating caviar and don't do a blessed thing! ENTITLED to their piece of the American dream, just for having a little extra to invest rather than use it to help somebody out.
AG, As for the UAW and the Anti Union point of view you have, consider a few things. The once most powerful Union has fallen finally. It has finally gotten to the point were an Auto Maker can get cheaper Labor overseas. Hooray alas cheap car prices! In China an Autoworker makes 1/8 of what we do here. That means the price of that $24,000 car will now be $3,000 right??? Or will the investment firms have a RIGHT to the profit for doing nothing but sit at home like welfare sponges.
Eventually the Anti Union mentality will hit the State workers and then the PBA. Wait till they expect your Police and Public Service Employee's to work for a Chinese wage! When a tree falls across your road and you have to get to work, remember what you wished for. I see no mention or complaint of Police wages here, any idea what they make? On average, jobs in the plant are just as dangerous, so don't even start!
Wait for all of this to trickle down and that stupid uneducated Auto Worker isn't there to put a bid in on your house when you want to sell it. Wait until you can't get a sandwich at your favorite place because the business closes (the guy's at the plant made it profitable for years) the owner went under when the Unions and Plant did! Wait till you go to the Doctor you’ve been with for years and the guy’s that do the job you could train a monkey to perform don’t go to him because they have no healthcare. How long will his office be there? Things aint trickled down yet, but they will! Just look a what’s going on in Detroit right now. Time will tell who was right on this argument.
I agree that they should have just filed for bankruptcy. And I never argued that the lender should have no say in what they've invested in. But the government has no business directly firing a CEO, along with capping salary for bank employees that took TARP money, etc. They are wiping their butts with the constitution and the sheeple are cheering.
Marty - according to you, if a worker does not have union representation, they make "Chinese wages", have no health care or future.
This simply isn't so. Most of America's workforce has no union representation, and union membership has been dropping because in general, they are irrelevant.
It looks to me that in general, where unions prevail - industries fail. So we already know who's right in this debate.
You probably complain about the person with the eastern Indian accent answering the phone when you call for support on a product. The CWA is responsible for driving those jobs overseas. The big three getting their butts kicked by the Japanese auto makers - the UAW is responsible for that. Toyota and Honda build their cars with American labor, and can somehow turn a profit. Public education that is prohibitively expensive, yet equally ineffective - the teachers unions are largely responsible for that failure. (although the breakdown of family values is a factor, but that is an entirely different discussion!)
Please show me the good things labor unions have accomplished in the past 20 years. Remember, it ain't 1890 anymore.
American automakers are destined to fail because of the UAW. With the Obama administration, the UAW will concede very little as they oversee a "structured bankruptcy" controlled by the gubmint. Since a main part of the problem will not get fixed, they will lose more and more money.
Separate names with a comma.