Green Machine - seriously green

Discussion in 'Photos & Bicycle Builds' started by HybriPed, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. HybriPed

    HybriPed Member

    I thought a thread dedicated to seriously green everyday or utility transport would be appropriate in this forum.

    I'll start with Clive Mills of Western Australia who sent me a copy of his MB trike some time ago.

    Attached Files:

  2. kerf

    kerf Guest

    A very interesting bike but I wonder about just how "green" it could be, as it is powered by a Happy Time engine. In the recent thread "Public perception?", loquin presented the following information about the emissions of these engines.


    Sure. The HT engine puts out 80-100 times the emissions per cc of displacement than does the auto engine with emissions controls. This is in part due to the lack of emissions controls, and in part because the bike runs for at least twice as long per mile (at cruise.)

    The CARBII/EPA emissions which our small engines must conform to are intended for weedeaters/generators, or other non-highway applications.

    CARBII emissions are in units of grams per KW of output per hour. For two stroke engines, the limit is 50 grams (unburnt HC + NOx emissions) per KW Hour. (4-stroke engines are only 8 grams per KW per Hour!) A Happy time engine is about 3.5 HP per Grubee. Assuming a 3.5 HP (2.6KW) engine that just meets CARBII emissions and travels at a constant 30 MPH:

    2.6KW * 50 grams equals 130 grams emissions per hour, for this motor.

    You spread the 130 grams over 30 miles (1 hour at 30 MPH) and you
    end up with 4.33 grams per mile emitted, for Hydrocarbons and nitrous oxides.

    Now, 2-cycle Carbon Monoxide emissions are allowed to be about 500 grams per KW per hour. Following the same calculations as above for CO yields 43.3 grams of carbon monoxide per mile.

    So, the hypothetical bike meeting CARBII standards emits 6.7 times more HC/CO emissions per mile than the car which just meets the EPA emissions limit. (4.33 / (.25+.4))

    In addition, the MB generates 12 times the carbon monoxide emissions per mile.

    Even my much lower emission producing TLE43 two-stroke still emits about 3 times the HC/CO emissions as a car.

    A 4-stroke motor, on the other hand, is about the same as an auto.
    End quote:
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2010
  3. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    well that tore that one up pretty darn good
    even before the evidence was presented
    I never thought of the Happy Times as being green anyTHING
    and we should not try to lead anyone on to think that a HT is green in any way
    because when the stuff hits the fan
    as in the truth
    it may be held against all motorized bicycles
    which just is not right
    because -- at least here in my state -- many are TRULY Legal
    and do not leave a toxic smelling thing behind

    thus think it to be best not to throw all motors into the green spot

    to tell you the truth I am not too green on much
    not to deceive the public

    ride that thing
  4. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    dont mean to beat the dead horse but 2-stroke engines are the epitome of pollution generating internal combustion engines..
  5. stealthc9

    stealthc9 Member

    ^you are correct, but a single happy time engine @30mph does not put out as much pollution as an modern 2.0 Liter internal combustion engine.

    But then again I also drive a kawasaki Ninja 250 lol
  6. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    Very inteligent... quantified response.

    the ford focus commercial says the focus puts out less pollution in 2100+ miles of driving than an hour of use on a 5.4 horsepower lawnmower. In fact you would have to drive one 180 miles to equal the output of grilling a hamburger.

    Since I can visibly see the smoke coming out my 2-stroke exhaust sometimes I am going to call the HT motor a big fat global warming FAIL... not that I am really into that kinda thing.

    The whole trend towards cleaner cars/air is really getting ridiculous... did you know that CARB has a new classification??? It's called the super ultra low emission vehicle category... Im not making that up, is that laughable to anybody else??? Like some congressmen was up late and couldn't think of anything better for the meeting the next day... so they thought

    "I got it... we just put super in front of ultra low emission vehicle... yeah that sounds good. They'll love that"

    It sounds like something off Seinfeld
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  7. furament

    furament New Member

    poor cow=poor you cow /goat = food \ sheep= wool = food = wool i think id rather see a happy cow!
  8. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

  9. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    I'm partial to this kind of configuration. Cargo bike, custom frame, 50cc 4 stroke.

  10. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    thats a really cool bike. What kind of engine is that???
  11. stealthc9

    stealthc9 Member

    imagine getting hit by a car on that lol.
  12. stealthc9

    stealthc9 Member

    There's one issue with that, I understand about the PZEV. but http://www.practicalenvironmentalis...y-you-probably-cant-get-one-in-your-state.htm

    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  13. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Wow, some of these cars are getting pretty clean....kind of surprised me at what has been accomplished. Be interesting to see how they compare with electric when the pollution of producing the electricity is added to the pot. (assuming it is produced by coal or oil of course)
  14. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    My money is on the gas powered car... I dont get how california can talk about banning plasma TV's while at the same time consider implementing a whole new generation of plug in electric vehicles??? It makes no sense.
  15. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    V tec, judging by that article, you probably have a good bet there. One thing I noticed is the economy isn't all that great, better than my Ford F 150, but not THAT great. Interesting to see what is more important to people, economy or clean air. Decisions...decisions. Enough to keep a whole new crop of politicians employed.
  16. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    I think you may be right.
  17. kerf

    kerf Guest

    I know for a fact that this guy designed a clean engine that ran backward. It sucked in smog through the tail pipe and it's only byproducts were clean air and gasoline. Big oil killed it.
  18. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Was that the slant head I heard about??? :jester:
  19. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Just tell'n you what "they" said.
  20. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    ok where is the gentleman who started this thread
    defend your point please

    as we ride those things