Has anyone tried to register as a Moped

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by ashorn, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. ashorn

    ashorn New Member

    I am looking in to registering my rig as a Moped in Pennsylvania.
    As far as a gray area from what I have read if it has a motor it
    is a MV and that is that. No inspection,:?: insurance of around
    $70.00 a year is not to bad. I am just wondering how they are
    going to handle the title. Bicycles do not have one and I really
    do not know if Mopeds come with one either.

    Anybody tried this or has any info it would be appreciated.

    Anyway I have a Mongoose Bike and a GEBE on the way on Monday.

    The plus side our township has no police force, BUT they use the State Police
    and they do not let you off quickly.
     

  2. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    You're going to get in trouble!
    You must post in the Introduction Forum first. It is THE major rule here.
    However, there is no rule YET that I MUST say hi 'n welcome.

    Hi! ;)
     
  3. kerf

    kerf Guest

    My welcome as well. Hurry and post that intro, I'm interested in the feedback on this post.
     
  4. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    I've been trying to register my '46 Columbia with a 48cc Grubee for some time now. PennDot regs seem to have bikes like ours in some kind of limbo. They say that anything with an engine of less than 50cc displacement need not be titled. Yet a few pages later in the same paperwork packet they go on to state that in order to be registered, the vehicle must be titled. With no VIN number, or for that matter no serial number (my bike is one that Columbia neglected to stamp a serial on), titling is certainly going to be a problem. Because the bike doesn't exactly meet all the criteria for a moped (no automatic transmission for one thing), I'm hoping to get an antique motorcycle plate for it. The bike is old enough, even if the engine is not. With that, I don't think I would need to fit turn signals to the bike.
     
  5. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Welcome to the black hole MB laws. You're not the only one in limbo.
     
  6. hot70cc

    hot70cc Guest

    There is a process that i checked into in PA, i first had to go to an advanced inspection station to get the signature from the mechanic saying that it was ok to be street legal. Then was the process of an application to the DMV for a title, then an application for registration. So basically is said pis on it i'll just take the chance to ride without anything lol.
     
  7. ashorn

    ashorn New Member

    UPDATE to my Original Post

    Just an update to my own question.

    First e-mail out to out local State Rep. came back stating: SEE BELOW)

    She did call me back later that night saying that their may be ways to do
    what I am asking. She looked in to it, and it my be possible. Could be registered without to much trouble. I have piqued some interest lets see where it goes.

    Going to call her back today. This office is really good for lost titles and
    County and State Paperwork help.


    Mr. Horn,
    Thank you for your e-mail with regard to your question about a bicycle with an engine to assist with pedaling. I will check your question with PENNDOT. My instinct tells me that it cannot be registered, nor can it be driven legally on the roads. Pennsylvania has very specific rules regarding mopeds and unless they are high powered and approved by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, qualifying as a motorcycle, it cannot be registered to be driven on the streets.
    I will be in touch.
    Sincerely,
    Jaime Marie Whalen
    Legislative Assistant for Rep.Richard T. Grucela
    239 South Broad Street
    Nazareth, PA 18064
    Phone: (610) 614-1312
    Fax: (610) 746-5602
    E-mail: jwhalen@pahouse.net
     
  8. DougC

    DougC Guest

    Every state has different laws, and I don't know anything about PA--but just because they say it can't be registered, does not mean it isn't street-legal.

    Motor vehicles are legal if they are titled and registered. Bicycles are legal, and they don't require titling or registration.

    If they say that it cannot be registered as a motor vehicle, then the next thing to do is check the technical definition of a bicycle, and see if it prohibits adding motors at all.
    ~
     
  9. kerf

    kerf Guest

    I don't know about Pa. but where I live, if it has the means of mechanical power, it's a motor vehicle.
     
  10. pokerhelper

    pokerhelper New Member

    Just because Columbia did not stamp a serial number on it does not mean you cannot...
    Just get a letter/number punch set and a hammer, and you are good to go.
    I do not think the motor vehicle bean counters will know the difference :)
     
  11. jtotton770

    jtotton770 New Member

    I had wondered if you bought an old moped frame and attached that vin
    # would that help . If you think about it it might give you more options
     
  12. ashorn

    ashorn New Member

    Has anyone used ITS (International Title Service) I called them and am going to look in to it. Looks like it might work for PA.
     
  13. xkwox

    xkwox Member

    keep me updated please
     
  14. friedlbug

    friedlbug Member

    I see that the direction my intro post has taken is the subject of this thread, so here's my status with the same issue.

    I plan to buy a Currie e-zip Trailz. I called the notary I normally deal with, who confirmed that it would need to be registered as a moped to be driven on the street. He also told me that I would need a Manufacturers Statement of Origin and a VIN to title the bike and that a VIN could be the serial number. I'm not sure if this implies any kind of DOT or other regulatory approval by virtue of having it, but a quick search of Google seemed to indicate that Currie bikes do not come with an MSO. I called Currie's tech support number and the nice lady checked into the issue and ultimately ended up refering me to the email of the tech support manager so she had something to run up the chain of command. I sent:

    > From: <removed for spambots>
    > To: <removed for spambots>
    > Subject: Pennsylvania requires ebike to register as mopeds - MSO
    > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:06:03 -0500
    >
    >
    > Hi. My name is <friedlbug>, and I was referred to you when I called the tech support number for Currie today. I'd like to purchase an e-zip Trailz, but have found that PA law considers this a moped requiring titling, registration, and insurance. I'm OK with this, but have since found out that I need a VIN number and manufacturers statement of origin to get the PA title. According to the notary I spoke with, the VIN is just the bike's serial number. The MSO must reference the VIN. Once I have the MSO and get insurance, I can title the bike and register it.
    >
    > If you could find out about getting an MSO for or let me know anything additional about registering it in PA, please let me know. Also, if you find that you can get an MSO once I purchase the bike, please let me know who to contact and who I can reference when the time comes to get it.
    >
    > Thanks in advance for your help,
    > <friedlbug>
    > perspective Currie bike owner

    So, we'll see how this goes.
     
  15. friedlbug

    friedlbug Member

    I received an email response directly from Mr. Larry Pizzi, CEO of Currie Technologies, only four hours after sending the above email. It contains excellent news regarding the need for registration of electric bikes. I plan to post the documents he sent me, but would prefer to post his response email as well. I'm waiting for his permission to post his response now.
     
  16. friedlbug

    friedlbug Member

    As promised:
    From: <removed for spambots>
    To: <removed for spambots>
    CC: <removed for spambots>
    Subject: RE: Pennsylvania Law regarding eBikes
    Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 20:00:23 -0500

    Thank you very much for responding to me so quickly, Mr. Pizzi. I greatly appreciate the CEO of Currie Tech responding to my questions, especially within four hours of sending them. I have been posting my registration questions and an excerpt of the email I sent to <head of Tech Support> on a motored biking website. Would you mind if I posted your response so others in my situation can read it as well?

    <friedlbug>


    > From: <removed for spambots>
    > To: <removed for spambots>
    > CC: <removed for spambots>
    > Subject: Pennsylvania Law regarding eBikes
    > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 16:07:49 -0800
    >
    > Hi <friedlbug>,
    >
    > Thanks for your email. I am not certain what the acronym "MSO" refers to
    > however, I have attached some information that may be helpful to you. Also,
    > you may want to contact the Electric Drive Transportation Association in
    > Washington, DC to answer your questions about the law.
    >
    > As you can see from the Federal law that passed in January 2002, that low
    > speed electric bicycles (all our products meet these qualifications to be
    > defined as such) are to be considered consumer products and NOT motor
    > vehicles. The law also states that it supersedes any State law that may be
    > more restrictive or stringent.
    >
    > In Pennsylvania, the law on the books was written to address gas powered
    > Mopeds that were popular in the 1970's and the Federal law was written this
    > way specifically to address State Moped laws.
    >
    > I hope this helps and that you will be enjoying one of our electric bicycles
    > very soon.
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > Larry Pizzi
    >
    > President
    >
    > CURRIE TECHNOLOGIES

    _______________________

    February 3, 2003
    ELECTRIC BIKES RECLASSIFIED AS CONSUMER PRODUCTS
    In December, President Bush signed into law legislation introduced by Representative Cliff Stearns (R-FL) that transfers jurisdiction over low-speed electric bikes from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), which already regulates consumer products such as bicycles. The law (Public Law 107-319/HR 727) defines a low-speed electric bicycle as a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750
    watts (1 horsepower) and a maximum speed of 20 mph when ridden by an operator weighing 170 lbs. Further, the law clarifies that a low speed electric bicycle shall not be considered a motor vehicle, and therefore is not subject to motor vehicle safety standards and enforcement, but shall be subject to CPSC regulations. Under the law, CPSC has authority to promulgate new or additional regulations for such products. Finally, the new law supercedes any existing State laws that may be more stringent than the federal guidelines for such products. If you have questions about this issue, contact EDTA at 202.508-5995.
     

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  17. Alan

    Alan Member

    That's great to hear about a nice thing our prez has done.
    How much does Currie want for it ? I just noticed it at Walmart.com for 348. Free shipping to your closest Walmart too. Walmart sucks, but their prices are good. :grin:
     
  18. friedlbug

    friedlbug Member

    Yeah, it's a good price. I'm still on the fence, though. Money is tight, and I'm under pressure to just drive my 35MPG/city car or build something. I know I'll get nailed if I tried to commute on a gas-assist bike, though. And the same response above precludes any chance of a bike serial number being a VIN - it's not a motor vehicle. Screwed.

    I have a neat article on building an ebike on the cheap, but I'd have to find the right stuff and not end up spending more by the time I did it right.
     
  19. hot70cc

    hot70cc Guest

    Can you get the lowdown on the gas engines rules and regs.??? for PA also. I know the regulations for a moped, but still wanting to know about the motor assisted bicycle. Thanks
     
  20. friedlbug

    friedlbug Member

    No such thing under PA law - a gas-assisted bike is a moped. And since they are a motor vehicle according to PA but not according to the feds, they don't have the VIN needed for titling in PA.
     
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