Honda gxh50 compared to clones?

well, shoot, i can live with that...is it genuine? i'll gladly give the benefit of the doubt, for now.

so, are we looking at a 4-stroke version of the 2-stroke HT market emerging? i can see that there are going to be "same engine, different sources" issues cropping up, just like before...

the conclusion to my part in this discussion is: check your sources, as usual when dealing with china you can find both good (certified) and bad (copycat). my opinion, for many reasons...go with the good, starve the bad out of existence.

thanks to everyone for making this an interesting thread :cool:

I think you are absolutely right Augidog but we need to know where the bad sources are. I know the 2-strok HTs varied by a huge amount according to thir provenance and I would hate to see the HuaShengs doing the same. So far I think the HS 4-strokes are all good and they probably know that if they try any quality fade monkey business people will move over to Hondas. Nevertheless even though the HS motors are good the quality fade is still there in the exhausts, mounting trays and particularly the throttle and kill switches.
 
A clone can be just as good as the original or better or worse, it just depends on the maker and the machining etc.... you know alot of copy cats change the specs to avoid the charge of being a clone and maybe litigation.
 
what have you learned, dorothy?

HS offers a certified copy...all the others (avoid confusion, they are not HS's) are merely carrying on as usual...put out the first one-thousand, get glowing reviews, produce & ship ten-thousand defective or inferior versions. installation kits, which are a different animal, are also subject to this fade, which only compounds the problem of finding a good engine/kit combo. read "forbes" to learn more about purposeful quality-fade.

without certification you simply can't trust any other claims...sorry, darwin...my ethical opinion is is that's why we're even having this discussion. mike couldn't just simply find the truths right out in plain sight and had to ask around instead.

we need to encourage and support fair-trade relationships, we need to quit rewarding theft.

insist on certification.
 
Last edited:
Unless theres a patent in force there is no theft, but by producing a clone to a Honda they are piggy backing on Hondas reputation and sweat. This problem has been going on ever since Ugh invented the wheel with 5 spokes and Iggah copied it with 6 spokes. The clone maybe legal and a great motor but let the consumer decide and ultimately they will.
 
you realize china does not protect patent rights?

i completely agree with your logic...just from the other side of the coin is all.

look where the consumer's choices have taken this economy. so, we blame ourselves or the folks making it too easy?

adding another spoke isn't theft, that's improvement and innovation...shortening the output shaft by a millimeter and using a cheaper gastank bracket, then calling it an "approved" design...well, my friend, imo that is theft. the fact that it goes on all the time doesn't change what it is.

certification means the source has paid for the right to trade with us. buying only certified products will strengthen the economy, you know the rest.

thanks to mike's topic, i've seen proof of certification for the Honda-original and the HS-copy...has anyone found any relevant documentation on the other engines discussed?
 
Last edited:
i completely agree with your logic...just from the other side of the coin is all.

look where the consumer's choices have taken this economy. so, we blame ourselves or the folks making it too easy?

adding another spoke isn't theft, that's improvement and innovation...shortening the output shaft by a millimeter and using a cheaper gastank bracket, then calling it an "approved" design...well, my friend, imo that is theft. the fact that it goes on all the time doesn't change what it is.

certification means the source has paid for the right to trade with us. buying only certified products will strengthen the economy, you know the rest.

I think this debate is not relevant to China because they just copy directly and don't blink an eye about patents and copyrghts. The HuaSheng is an exact copy of the Honda. To change important components to get around patents would be uneccessarily time consuming to them. When I worked there from 2000 - 2004 they just wanted me to bring a good catalogue of whatever components I wanted to specify on a project and they would take the catalogue away and reappear in no time with a copy. Needless to say their products were vastly inferior to what was on the catalogue. This sort of thing has been going on for a long time and China isn't the first to do it. When Charles ****ens visited America he saw his latest book in the bookshops even though it had only just been published in Britain and there were no American publishers appointed to publish it there. There was nothing he could do about it but eventually the US realised that in the long term it wasn't good for business and came to the party on copyrights and patents.
That's funny - I see that I can't write the surname of a very famous British Author. For those who want to know the missing letters rhyme with Lick and Sick.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can obsess about increased power output at high rpm,like in the Honda engine vs the Chinese clones, but wether you can actually make use of this capability is quite another matter.With a CVT like the NuVinci hub, no problem,you can use "high gear" for sedately cruising along at low rpm,and still use max.power (high rpm) for hill climbing or to reach max. speed by gearing down more.With a fixed reduction you would have to run at higher rpm for normal cruising in order to be able to get up to 7000 rpm for max. power, esp. if there are hills to climb and you need max. power.So there are definite tradeoffs involved.You can either optimise the drivetrain for comfortable cruising or go for top speed,in the latter case the performance difference of these engines would turn out to be more consequential.
 
What is the 'JL' gearbox?

The Staton gearbox is a bolt-on, with the centrifugal clutch bell, to mate with the Honda/Mitsubishi/Robbins-Suburu engines, and is an 18.75:1 reduction unit. This allows the use of a small, freewheel sprocket on the rear axle. And, this is a high quality unit, with a lifetime warranty.
 
The basic design of pushrod OHV engines has not really changed for almost a century,what has changed is use of better materials,improved lube systems,better tolerances and better quality controll.Unless an engine is manufactured by a manufacturer with a reputation to lose, like Honda,
Mitsubishi,B&S,etc you are liable to get shafted.I'm sure the Chinese are quite adept at playing us for suckers,you just can't expect to get what you're unwilling to pay for.
 
The basic design of pushrod OHV engines has not really changed for almost a century,what has changed is use of better materials,improved lube systems,better tolerances and better quality controll.Unless an engine is manufactured by a manufacturer with a reputation to lose, like Honda,
Mitsubishi,B&S,etc you are liable to get shafted.I'm sure the Chinese are quite adept at playing us for suckers,you just can't expect to get what you're unwilling to pay for.

This is so true. Let's say I buy a Staton NuVinci for whetever it costs ($1100?) and I mount it on a mid range dual suspension Giant (say $1000).
For that I get a gearbox warranties for life and a hub with a lifetime warranty. A subaru Robin precision made in Japan and I reckon I'd get 7000 miles out of the engine at least. A new engine wouldn't cost that much and off I'd go again as good as new. Compare this against spending $9000 on a top range downhill bike, like plenty of people do, that although a fantastic piece of beautifully made technology, will quite likely be impossible to find parts for in 10 years because technology of those bikes is moving so fast that what's best today is obsolete in 5 years.
I can't quite afford a Staton NuVinci yet but when I can I will be getting a better bargain than I've ever had from my cheap motors. Not just that I reckon it may well have a very high second hand value as well.
 
Back
Top