Honda gxh50 compared to clones?

[MotorbikeMike]

Back to the Point at Hand

HI, ok guys, so we have looked into the twisted world of the 49CC YES My new Honda arrived and the GX50 is clearly marked 49cc (very unimportant in some parts of the world).

Apparently the T I T A N has NO true factory specs, because none were ever found? No matter as I have no desire to be involved with tiny Chinese centrifugal clutches, as I see that are part of that engine. I NEED an output shaft, and 5/8 is VERY universal. Do they have a 5/8 shaft type model?

Come on now, how many of you guys would REALLY line up to say that a Chinese clone will be as good as a Honda? Do you really think the metallurgy is as good on a CH-Clone as it would be from a Japanese automobile, and motorcycle manufacturer?

Ok on another point IF the HS actually WAS 2.5, wouldn't they be bragging about it in their specs? AND conversely, if the Honda were not, would they risk their reputation on untruth?

The High RPM myth, look at the HP chart on the Honda, it develops the HP way before red line.

My little Honda does have a bunch of relevant smog info on it also, and a "fuel mileage comparison" similar to electrical appliances.

I will be the first to agree that the HS seems like a good little engine, and that there is room for the less-expensive model, and the more pricey Honda in the Scheme of things.

I will be happily testing both engines, tho I find myself in need of another baseplate, and muffler to be fair, I intend (in my secret laboratory) to build 2 bikes, so that the test will be fair.

Initially I will remove the ailing JL Hoot box and HS engine, and replace it with a 2ND gen Grube box and the little Honda. I am aware of the final drive sprocket differences, tho I will need to count the teeth on the boxes (unless someone has the true reduction ratios).

BTW the only thing wrong with the HS engine, is the gas is old, and I need to try the other engine on that baseplate (till I locate, or build another).
I believe that the HS is adequate, but predict that I will see greatly improved performance from the Honda.

Hey, BTW the muffler on the kit I got was a 2-stroke muffler, and it discolored almost immediately from the excess heat of the back pressure from that COMPLETELY wrong, ill-conceived muffler, this I will fix easily.

General 4-stroke Muffler info..... 4-stroke engines use a head-pipe that is usually MUCH larger than the exhaust valve, and attempt to introduce little to NO back-pressure. For a reference, look at ANY engineered single-cylinder 4-stroke, whether the Honda, a Briggs, or small motorcycle.

Not a bad looking pipe, but a very poor performing one.

NOW, please respond at will to the post, BUT, a new twist:

What do you like the MOST about your little 50cc in-frame 4-stroke.

AND

What do you like the least about your little 50cc in-frame 4-stroke.

We march on!

 

[Irish John]

In order of preference I'll list the following:

What I like most about the HS & Grubee on my Schwinn Alloy Seven with 48T sprocket is:
1.The reliability of the engine & GB
2.The faster cruising speed.
3. The good quality freewheel drive sprocket and it's improved safety
3.Good environmental footprint.
4.Ability to buy fuel at any service station
5.Less noise
6.Great sound from my drilled out long exhaust
7.Better fuel consumption
8.Ease of access for valve adjustment

What I like least is:
1.The design of the Grubee mounting tray makes it difficult to change to avoid using steel bolts threaded into soft aluminium on the sliding tray because it is very hard to get a nut to fit on the other side which gives a reliable mount.
2. Using 6mm studs for front & rear frame mounts that thread into aluminium when 8mm would have been much better without reliance on threads going into aluminium.
3.Inability to get one supplied with a 52T or 50T sprocket that would perform best all round.
4. The 56T sprocket supplied is just not the best size for these kits.
5.Inability to pull on hills without pedalling
6.Having to replace all the fixing bolts with quality ones.
7.Having to change the oil every 10 hrs of operation.
8.Really insulting quality of throttle\kill switch\dual cable brake lever\chain.
9.Having throttle\kill switch & dual brake designed as a single component
10. Greatly reduced choice of bike frames because of engine size requirements

Very soon I shall have another identical bike with the Honda motor and 50 or 52Ts on both and will be able to compare the two motors performance on the exact same conditions.

 

[darwin]

Remember back in the 60s japanese cars and bikes were considered junk, in fact anything made in Japan. Does history repeat it self? I know a couple of people with chinese scooters that cost around 1k and they are pure junk, junk, junk.

 

[Irish John]

Remember back in the 60s japanese cars and bikes were considered junk, in fact anything made in Japan. Does history repeat it self? I know a couple of people with chinese scooters that cost around 1k and they are pure junk, junk, junk.

Yes I know but that was in the 60s & 70s and our memories were tainted by the war. My father refused to ride in Japanese cars right up until he died! Honda copped a lot of abuse but they were cleverly engineered even if they were often ugly. I remember Mike Hailwood winning The Isle of Mann TT on a 250cc six cylinder Honda engine - might have been even smaller cc. British engines leaked oil all over the place too. At least the Japanese motors were pretty original and when they started going to European designers for their aesthetics they never looked back. Even the Europeans acknowledge that the Toyota Lexus is a truly great luxury car measured against the best European models. They couldn't use the name Nissan in UK for a long time because of associations with their WW2 fighter planes and they were called Datsun and people were very rude about them. Jokes about gearboxes exploding and passers by exclaiming "Look at that! It's raining Datsun cogs!"

 

[MotorbikeMike]

Japan? HUH?

HI Darwin, I don't know what you mean, or why you made that post. I was a mechanic, a long time ago, at a relatively new dealership in my small town.

It was the early part of 1971, and I landed a job, as a Line Mechanic, at Rodgers and Rodgers Datsun in El Centro CA. Great cars, fine metal, high quality machining in the cast and forged parts.

I also have a 150cc Fly Scooter from China, and it is a pretty fair machine, certainly not total junk.

Please respect this topic, and comment on what the members want to know here?

TIA

Mike

 

[darwin]

Mike if you ever worked on 1950s 60s Toyopets you know exactly what Im talking about. Anyway my point is how the perception of japanese quality has turned 180 degrees compared to when they 1st started. Maybe the chinese juggarnaut will experience the same turnabout also in a few years, as far as the comments on chinese scooters well read craigslist comments about them or ask anyone who owns one. The reason Im mentioning this is due to the controversy over chinese motors.

 

[duivendyk]

The Japanese have a "shame" culture,to bring dishonor on your family or your Company--they look on their company in a filial sense--- is considered extremely reprehensible,therefore they have high standards and inclined to be perfectionistic.Hence they wrote the book on quality control.The Chinese behave more like laissez faire capitalists (whatever they can get away with,is what they'll do.).But they are not stupid.Bad news for gullible suckers.Caveat Emptor or Buyer Beware is essential in dealing with them.

 

[Irish John]

The Japanese have a "shame" culture,to bring dishonor on your family or your Company--they look on their company in a filial sense--- is considered extremely reprehensible,therefore they have high standards and inclined to be perfectionistic.Hence they wrote the book on quality control.The Chinese behave more like laissez faire capitalists (whatever they can get away with,is what they'll do.).But they are not stupid.Bad news for gullible suckers.Caveat Emptor or Buyer Beware is essential in dealing with them.

Shouting and screaming and banging fists on the table gets you absolutely nowhere in China (or Japan) because it's a total loss of face to them. You have to have some really powerful weapon to use as leverage and I'm not talking about a thermo-nuclear device, although a small one of those tucked inside your coat pocket would probably come in very handy.

 

[cruiser66]

Honda gxh50 compared to clones

I thought this was a thread about comparing the gxh50 to clones. I have the HS which is, I believe, the only clone besides maybe the Titan, of the GXH50. I'm sure the GXH50 has more power because of its higher compression ratio and probably other not so obvious factors. I realize the quality of the HS might not be equal to the Honda, but I have had no problems with this engine and the lower price alone more than makes up any differences, IMHO. Since this discussion has no USA products, I feel I owe no allegiance because of my purchase. I'm trying to get the most for my money realizing that there are problems that might occur because of this. So far no problems.

66

 

[Irish John]

Cruiser, I've had no problems with the HS engine itself - runs really quiet and sweet. The only hassle was with sprocket sizes and the 56T was no good for my Schwinn with the HS\Grubee. 48T is much better but I sweat on hills.
I'll try a 50T before I try a 52T cos I think 50 may be the magic size and they are easily available and cheap. I also tried the wet GB but my cltch slipped and the GB got very hot. Gone back to lithium based grease and that works very well even though the gears throw most of the grease off the minute they start spinning. Tried packing it full of grease but I don't think it helped and grease got onto the clutch but that was when I really packed it pretty full. GB only gets warm now, never hot. Oh yes a couple of us have had an improvement in throttle response by drilling a 5/16" hole just above the existing exhaust outlet. I do belive the Honda is probably a little bit more powerful but until I try one I can't be sure. I'm building one next week the exact same as my existing one but with the Honda so it will be good to compare them. I'm also building a HS\JL Hoot one next week so I can compare all three. I'll be doing a post on it soon. I think you will be very pleased with the HS but if I could afford it I'd get the Honda. The Honda I'm building is for someone else but at your US prices (Small Engine Warehouse) I'd definitely choose the Honda and avail myself of the best.