Honda GXH50 Warranty Scam

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by johncy7, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. johncy7

    johncy7 Member

    Don't expect help from Honda with your GXH50. It's a long story, but unless you want to take them to court, you'll probably be out of luck. This is a long story so I'm going to give the shortest version I can.

    * bought GXH50
    * engine died in 5 months
    * authorized dealer (M&M) gave me a quote of $65 to replace stock unusable throttle assembly that I took off to put on a throttle lever
    * told dealer forget it I'll take it elsewhere
    * dealer charged me $25 for throttle quote (never got quote to fix what was broken. the engine)
    * refused to pay for bogus quote and called the police to get engine back (success)
    * took engine to dealer #2
    * bought another GXH50 while waiting
    * increased oil change cycle from 25 hours to 18 based on bad advice from dealer #1
    * 5 months later engine #2 died
    * now 5 months later engine #1 had not even been looked at by dealer #2
    * still 5 months later engine #2 died in the same mysterous way engine #1 died
    * took engine #2 to dealer #3
    * dealer #3 said (without turning one screw) that I over reved the engine so it won't be covered by warranty
    * dealer #3 also lied and said all Honda's are designed to run at 4500 rpm's or less.
    * I showed dealer #3 that the GXH50 recommended rpm's is upwards to 7000 according to manual
    * dealer #3 quickly changed his reason from "over reving" to my putting on a throttle that was unapproved by Honda (note: you cannot use the GXH50 without adding your own throttle)
    * I called Roberts Supply (Honda's warranty company) and spoke with Larry
    * Larry told me I over reved the engine without ever seeing it
    * I asked Larry how many rpm's is the GXH50 at full throttle. He said he didn't know.
    * I told Larry I used the engine for a motorized bicycle
    * Larry told me if I say "motorized bicycle" he will hang up the phone on me (yes, this was weird)
    * I told Larry that his dealer (M&M) has the worst reviews I've ever seen and told him to check for himself
    * Larry told me he wouldn't do that to his dealers. (shows what he thinks of his customers)
    * Larry had dealer #3 send engine #2 to him
    * Larry told me it wouldn't be covered because I put a spring on the throttle assembly swing arm that caused the engine to over rev
    * I explained to Larry that the spring pulls the throttle closed (NOT OPEN) to work with throttle lever on handle bar
    * I called Honda who wanted to direct me back to Roberts Supply
    * I argued my case with a Honda rep
    * I was told that by putting on an unapproved throttle I voided the warranty
    * I showed the Honda rep that their warranty stated that they are to give me a diagnosis of what caused the engine failure, not to exceed 30 days from the time brought in to the dealer
    * Honda rep agreed
    * Shortly thereafter I got a letter from Roberts Supply stating that my "engine" (singular) would not be covered under warranty. etc.. etc...
    * Now nearing a year later. Engine #1 is still at dealer #2 and has not been looked at
    * To this day engine #2 is with dealer #3 who forwarded to Roberts Supply who never opened it

    Dealer #1: M & M Lawn Mowers (Tampa)
    Dealer #2: Interbay Air Compressors (Tampa)
    Dealer #3: Quality Power (Tampa)

    I bought a Tanaka PF-4000 that I've been using for the past several months and I'm very impressed with it.
    Still not sure if I will take Honda to court or not, but spending $700 in 5 months for engines that supposedly come with a 2 year warranty and never even getting a proper diagnosis so that I could understand what went wrong and correct it right away rather than wasting my money with Honda, is very irritating.

    I ride my motor bike 800 plus miles a month and need it to be dependable. Honda, their GXH50 and Roberts Supply has let me down BIG time.

    -John
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2015

  2. rogergendron

    rogergendron New Member

    you realy think they WANT to pay you ?

    they will make up every excuse they can to not give you a penny !
     
  3. IbedaYank

    IbedaYank Member

    it is a well know fact that the lawyers for HONDA came up with this to protect HONDA from being SUED do to their motors being used on motorized bicycles. This is also the same HONDA that makes and sells motorcycles. Do you honestly think they would rather you spend $400 or $4000+ to buy a new one.
    Admitting to use on a motorized bicycle is just plain stupid... its a GARDENTILLER..plain and simple
     
  4. johncy7

    johncy7 Member

    From the beginning, I called smallenginewarehouse and told their rep (Gary) I wanted to buy the GXH50 for my bicycle. His answer was "no problem, it comes with a 2 year warranty". Even Larry at Roberts Supply said putting it on a bicycle didn't void my warranty. But his telling me he'd hang up the phone for saying "motorized bicycle" was strange. Initially I thought he was saying it in a way like he wanted me to be quiet about it because it really wasn't allowed on a bicycle and his boss might be listening, and that he was going to pass it through for repairs. "don't say motorized bicycle [wink-wink]. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

    Basically, I think they are putting a faulty/weak part inside the engine that goes bad in x number of revolutions no matter what, which they are trying to keep a secret by blaming everything else for their engine failure.

    -John
     
  5. johncy7

    johncy7 Member

    What I expect is a reputable company make a quality product and stand by it and their word.

    -John
     
  6. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    No, they are not scamming you. The engine is made for use on lawn equipment. The throttle that comes on the equipment is designed to prevent revving past a certain point. They clearly said that putting an unapproved throttle on voids your warranty. If your warranty is voided and they know that, they're not going to look at it for free. But go ahead and take them to court. If you can afford a team of $1000/hr lawyers, you might win. Pigs might also fly this year.
     
    Wisconsin Tinkerer and LR Jerry like this.
  7. BigBlue

    BigBlue Active Member

    Running an engine at or near the net 7000 rpms is going to slowly destroy an engine. If you removed the governor or modified the throttle then it's on you. We all accept this fact. If I tamper with my cars engine, I will definitely void the manufacture's warranty.

    Your final gear ratio will have an impact on the engine and if you run the engine at full speed down a hill, your going to destroy your engine. Here's a quote from the EZ MotorBike Company on modifying the Honda or Hausheng:

    "Just want to take a few minutes and try to discourage everyone from modifiying the HS or Honda motors. Both motors will self destruct if run above redline [7800 RPMs] for any extended period of time. Both motors will explode [rod will leave crankshaft] because they are tuned in such a way as to “not know when to quit”. Several companies found this out when they offered kits with ratios above 20 to 1 and of course many owners tried to reach 35 MPH and found the motor turning over 9,000 RPMs [can you say "BOOM"]." September 06, 2012.

    3 engines - I would say you were something wasn't right with your gearing and/or you didn't have a tachometer to monitor the engines rpms. Many Honda engines have been used by members of this forum and the other forum with no reported problems.

    Good Luck,

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue
     
  8. IbedaYank

    IbedaYank Member

    http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com.../P-PWL50372-M.Eng.Dist.Ltd.Warranty.TO930.pdf

    Exclusions:
    This warranty does not extend
    to accessories, parts, or apparel affected or damaged by collision, normal
    wear, use in an application for which the product was not
    designed, or any other misuse, neglect, incorporation or use of unsuitable attachments or parts, unauthorized alteration, improper installation, or any causes other than defects in material or workmanship of the product. Installing Parts and Accessories on non-Honda products or engines voids this warranty


    Honda motors are NOT designed for motorized bicycle use by putting one on a motorized bicycle you VOIDED that warranty... plain and simple!!!
     
  9. johncy7

    johncy7 Member

    Thanks for the repsones. But when the Honda authorized dealer and the head of their warranty company say I can put it on a bike, Honda "should" honor that. Adding a throttle lever is certainly no major mod which must be done to this engine for use on a bike. That's why companies like Staton send the throttle cable/lever with the clutch I bought for it. When they failed to honor their agreement and properly diagnose it within 30 days so that I could buy a better engine, then Honda "should" honor that as well. I bought this engine so that I wouldn't go throgh the same disaster as I did with China/Grubee/gasbike.net.
    Everything about the GXH50 is marketed and spec'd to be a high rpm engine.

    Here's the current description at smallenginewarehouse:
    "GXH50QXA 2.5hp Horizontal 5/8"x1-5/8" Keyed Shaft, Overhead Valve, LOS, 7000 RPM Honda Engine"
    http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/GXH50QXA.html

    Here's their recommended rpm operating range. Well over 7000 rpms.
    GXH50.jpg

    Oh, and if anyone wants to buy my GXH50 clutch let me know.
     
  10. johncy7

    johncy7 Member

    It was 2 engines and 3 authorized service companies. The first engine went to two different companies. They all looked my engine(s) over first and then accepted it for warranty repair. Then began to lie/scam and try to charge me for doing nothing etc...
     
  11. johncy7

    johncy7 Member

    Here's my current motor bike if you want to check it out. It is real nice and a lot of fun to ride!
    100_3095a.jpg
    100_3096a.jpg
     
  12. LR Jerry

    LR Jerry Well-Known Member

    The problem with these warranties is they'll slip things into the small print which can void them. So I can see them putting something in there about messing with the throttle could void the warranty. Like what has been said by others one must read a warranty through very thoroughly. Then be mindful of what you're saying to representatives. The rep's job is to get the company out of paying to fix the product. Then sell you a replacement at a reduced price so you feel as if you were treated fairly. There's many companies like this.
     
  13. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    Looks like a fun ride.
    You're better off with the Tanaka, if I remember only Robin/Subaru approves their engines for use with MAB's.4-strokes like to be rode mid range, high revs for a long time,... well you found out.Remember 2 strokes need to be varied throttle-wise as well, too long WOT, not enough lube.From the palm tree and the big a.s.s.ed AC I'd say you were in or near Gilbert/Chandler AZ.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  14. IbedaYank

    IbedaYank Member

    like a dealer would not omit a few small details in a warranty to sell a $400 engine...
     
  15. johncy7

    johncy7 Member

    Another footnote I failed to mention is that I only rode it about 45 minutes or less in the morning and 45 minutes or less in the evening 4 days a week (for work) and a little in between. All inner city stop and go with a lot of traffic lights. I thought I should mention that so it's not assummed I'm running wide open for hours on end or anything.

    Another FYI... the part inside this engine they call a governor doesn't actually do anything at all to govern the engine or disengage it from over reving. It's a mock part. The only governing being done on this engine is a spring attached to the static throttle assembly which prevents the carburetor from fully opening the throttle. Which also means that as that spring gets older, the amount that it opens will continuely decrease. So the whole marketing scam "7000 RPM" etc... is just that. A SCAM.

    And no grinningremlin I'm not in AZ. Didn't you notice Tampa in my post? It's beautiful sunny Florida! :sunny:
    Which is also why I have that plastic piece on the top of my air filter. To keep the rain out! LOL
     
  16. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    Honda 50s governor is used for load not speed. You set the idle speed by moving the idle lever to say 3500 rpm, when load on the engine increases it compensates with increase in speed and visaversa......I've never seen a Honda 50 take a dump like your description unless it was abused, it's possible to get a bad one but I have my doubts. I used to see Honda 50s come in on cement mixers and looked like they were 50 years old and they still started on 1st or 2nd pull and run great. Landscaping apps too and you know how employees treat equipment they don't have to worry about paying for. Lucky if the oil gets changed 1 time a season and they still run after years of use. I don't think we're getting the whole story here.
     
  17. rogergendron

    rogergendron New Member

    look you should have reinstalled all the stock parts and said it broke while you were tilling your garden . theywould have had nothing to complain about. as soon as you said motorized bike you gave them a reason to deny you the warrenty

    and the honda gx 50 should be able to turn 7,000 rpms all day no problem .
     
  18. LR Jerry

    LR Jerry Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying the OP necessarily did anything wrong to the engine. Manufactures put things into the small print for the sole purpose of voiding a warranty. Honda isn't the only one who does this. Often in these warranties they jump you around in it telling you to refer back to certain sections or paragraphs. This is done to confuse people but its legal. Like I said with many companies the representative has been trained to find reasons within the warranty to void it. Then try to sell you a replacement.
     
  19. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member




    im with this one all the way.... ive seen em on concrete mixers with no air filters, get chucked in the back of the truck alongside five ton of pump pipe, driven from state to state, and half the time some idiot thinks that if the truck has a tank on the back, it must be good for the lil honda... ahem. diesel is the one thing they dislike.

    to say a honda died in less than a few hours use, twice... you need to do some re-engineering.


    get over the scam, get over the feeling of righteousness.

    motorised bicycle is NOT the intended application, and even if you have a trade card, and have been a licensed mechanic for 35 years, by the book, you are "less" qualified to "alter" the engine in any way whatsoever, than the pimple faced 15 yr old highschool dropout thats just started his apprenticeship at the dealer... its not what you know, but WHO. remember that.

    yup. you should have used your head and made the scam a bit more palatable. they can just as easily turn around and sue you for slander with this thread...
     
  20. johncy7

    johncy7 Member

    I've proven that Honda markets/specs their GXH50 for hight RPM's and I've showed my first Honda's authorized service company has the lowest custom rating I've ever seen for a company online. (2.2 stars)
    https://www.google.com/search?q=m&m...ls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1&lrd=lrd

    I have absolutely, positively no reason whatsoever to abuse an engine that is my main source of transportation and had supposedly purchased the top of line with Honda. It is however, painfully obvious, that I'm among the few that use their MB for more than recreation use and know first hand what it takes to make it as reliable as possible.

    Yes, I'm pretty sure I could win a case against Honda in small claims court for under $300. But the facts remain: they have done whatever they could to make their sale for the sole purpose of doing whatever it takes... lie, cheat, scam etc... to NOT stand by it.

    I strongly recommend anyone in the market for a commuting motorized bicycle engine, to steer clear of Honda and China and Grubee parts. I will keep you posted on how my Tanaka PF-4000 holds up. Since it's marketed and sold for MB's and scooters, I'm confident they are built to last.

    Don't listen to these guys who build MB's for the weekend rider who put low miles on their bikes, who are worried about any bad publicity on the engines they use for their builds. I'm giving you real-world experience for your benefit. And it has cost me plenty of $$$ to learn these lessons for you and me.

    -John
     
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