how do you start/ stop the engine on a rack mount system?

Discussion in 'Rack Mounted Engines' started by thud, Apr 5, 2007.

  1. thud

    thud Guest

    I am thinking of getting a Staton gear drive and I would like to know the starting and stopping procedures. I know they have a freewheel on the pedal side but does the drive side chain and gear always turn? If so, and the clutch is centrificul how do you bump start the motor by pedaling?
    Thanks
     

  2. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    There are two ways to stop the engine: a kill switch OR reaching behind, flipping the choke ON, and touching the throttle to flood it.

    Starting by jumping the clutch? Don't know how that would happen, since there is no ON ignition position, just a rope start.......

    I could be wrong, but don't know how.....
     
  3. Torques

    Torques Guest

    Only a pull start, no other way to start it since it is a centrifigal cluth....but..the Golden Eagle Bike engine system is superior to their gear system in all aspects. Check out this site:
    http://www.bikeengines.com
     
  4. thud

    thud Guest

    why do you say it is better? I worry about the belt breaking or just wearing out. The gear setup looks like it would last forever. Thanks for the input guys.
     
  5. Torques

    Torques Guest

    The belt is made out of Kevlar and manufactured by Gates (the world's most trusted name if belts, hoses and hydraulics). I bought a backup which only cost around 25.00. Golden Eagle has told me there are many people with 5-7000 miles with no apparent problems. I have around 1200 miles on my original belt since I purchased the Golden Eagle Bike Engine drive system 7 weeks ago. The belt is basically flawless. The problem with the Staton system is this: It is heavy and large, a reduction gear package that loses energy. It is maybe only 60-70 percent efficient in energy transfer, in other words, lots of energy is lost from the engine shaft to the wheel hub. The Golden Eagle system is around 92 percent efficient as it is a direct, belt drive. Belt drives are much more efficient than chains, no oil residue, etc. That's why you see so many belt drives on different motorcycle manufactures' models. Before the Golden Eagle, I had Staton friction drive for 2900 miles. It was junky. I have talked to people that have experience with the gear drive from Staton and the Golden Eagle, there is no comparison regarding reliability, performance and weight. My Golden Eagle is superior to the Staton I had hands down. Whatever decision you make, enjoy and be safe.
     
  6. bamabikeguy

    bamabikeguy Active Member

    Everything runs on belt these days, and there are 3 ways (2 on installation and one on performance) to make the belt last for thousands of miles. .

    1. The spoke ring being centered, reducing tension arm "loopiness".

    2. Dry fitting the rack/gear/belt. Before you ever put the engine on, you make sure the belt is running pretty close to center in the middle of the gear. 8 times out of 10 it is pretty well "in the groove" on the first try, but if you see it is touching the edge of the gear, you put spacers down at the axle, and get the thing lined up.

    3. Start with the "normal gear", get the hang of it before moving up to the "highway gear".

    You start getting used to the noise of the engine, and it will tell you "help out on this hill with some pedaling, or let of that throttle some".

    It soon becomes second nature, especially on familiar turf, where you know how to get the jump on various hills and inclines.

    I carry an extra belt/inner tube and drive shaft on long journeys, so if it did break, it is a 5 minute roadside repair. Dennis at GEBE added more kevlar and deeper grooves around January of 2006, and the performance has increased substantially.
     
  7. turkeyssr

    turkeyssr Guest

    Motorcycle belt drives

    Okay so I'm nitpicking here but..... I wouldn't say that 'most motorcycles' use belt drive, it's actually the other way around. In the case of a simple bicycle chain, it's more like chains are 98% efficient versus 94% efficiency for the same set up using a belt. (Yes, there are a few belt drive bicycles, not many...Mercedes made one) As for motorcycles, they're in a different league. Belts can't handle the torque/horsepower that chains can, AND belts are more susceptible to damage from rocks and debris found on the road. (If you've ever been to a motorcycle drag race, don't be surprised to see some of them snapping belts on drag bikes that use them) Also, it's far easier to change gear ratios on a motorcycle with sprockets as compared to pulleys and a belt. Personally, I liked the idea of a motorcycle with a belt (no lube), but only Hardley's/Buell's and a few crusier type Japanese bikes had them. After getting about 27k out of my mc's chain, I was satisfied.
     
  8. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    :cool:Torques, you have your opinion.

    I wonder why many GEBE owners worry about breaking spokes and motor strap. and how ya gotta take it easy, so as not to abuse the setup, as GEBE would berate some of their customers. maybe that's why engines over 2 hp aren't offered or condoned on GEBE installs.

    i have STATON gear chain drive, and i'm glad i do.i like unbreakable stuff. i'm on full power as soon as i push off from a standing start. no need to worry about breaking spokes or motor mounts. i carry my bike up and down 2 flights of stairs whenever i ride, so weight's not a problem for me.

    about power loss thru friction? when you're flying over 30mph on a 20" bike on 2.2hp, am i experiencing considerable hp loss?(with .7962 handicap factor, that's about 41 mph on a 26" bike.)

    i don't think so. if i am, that's plenty fast enough for me.

    if ya want to baby your motored bike and limit yourself on how powerful of an engine you can use, choose GEBE. if you want to apply power gradually and enjoy the scenery, choose GEBE.if you wanna run 15hp, not 1.5hp, choose STATON. if you want to apply full power and not worry about breaking belts and spokes, choose STATON.

    by the way, i use 14g spokes, and haven't broken anything yet.(except the master link.) when i upgrade to more hp, i'll install larger spokes.

    my next project is to install a more powerful 49cc pocket bike engine onto STATON drive. it literally bolts onto the drivetrain. after that is an aircooled 40cc POLINI bike engine. finally, the watercooled 15 hp 50CC POLINI engine
    the POLINI engines have 80mm clutches and a radiator:shock:, and may need slight mods to the STATON gearbox to bolt on.

    and of course, STATON gearboxes have a lifetime guarantee.

    in the end, it's an individual choice, and it doesn't bother me what people ride.

    Myron
     
  9. az cra-z

    az cra-z Guest

    I, too think the Staton chain drive is the toughest thing out there. When you turn it off with the switch, the gearbox and drive chain stop almost immediately, the only thing going is the little "tic-tic-tic" from the drive freewheel. Also, I can reach behind while pedaling and pull the rope once (twice if I haven't run it for more than two days) and it always starts. I haven't used the choke even once in the 500+ miles I've put on it so far! It has more than enough power to keep me at or above the 20 MPH speed limit here, I've climbed some serious grades, and done some off-road riding on dirt and very loose gravel.
     
  10. DougC

    DougC Guest

    The drive side of most systems does always spin.

    If there's a centrifugal clutch, then you need a rope-starter on the engine or some way to spin it. The centrifugal clutch has a bit of drag but not nearly enough to start the engine.

    The belt-drive probably has less vibration than the chain setups do, but the chain setups can withstand more power. The gear reductions that some setups like Statons use makes me wonder about durability.

    --------

    {just dreaming}
    Ideally I'd like to use a chain-drive setup, but a direct drive with a centrifugal clutch (and no gearbox involved)--sort of like a GEBE, but with a chain instead of a belt. If I ever make my second attempt with the Lifan engine, that's what I think I'll have to do.
    ~
     
  11. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    :cool:Doug, with no gear reduction, be prepared for 10tooth-150-tooth sprockets.

    that'd be about the size of the GEBE sheave pulley.

    Myron
     
  12. JemmaUK

    JemmaUK Guest

    Hey,

    To stop I always use the choke and then kick the throttle to full momentarily. That happily kills the engine but be sure to set it back to normal running or the engine is the devil to start sometimes.

    As far as the starter procedure is concerned its a pull start and I was also wondering about running some starter off the rear wheel to spin up the clutch and start the motor.. if that would be possible...

    if not I will probably get a longer recoil starter cable and then route it so it would be fitted - via a roller to a location on the down bar - so I can start without putting my back out when on the bike..

    Is the motor compatible with a underbar fuel tank (such as that sold by dax) ?

    I have currently removed the plastic cover on the motor and it looks alot better - I may replace it with a black but otherwise leave it 'virgin' for a more classic appearance.

    I think I am gonna need a new rear wheel *sigh* my one is not running true.

    As to the chain/belt debate I would personally go for belt. I know of several 100+hp motorbikes that can be converted by kit, and their owners were universally impressed by the result..

    Only provisos are - check alignments and keep an eye on the state of the belt...

    Jemma xx

    Jemma xx
     
  13. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    :cool:I also pull the choke to stop. maybe i'll reposition the cover, so i can easily pullstart from the bike seat.

    when the bike sat for awhile, one night i yanked on that pull cord a hundred times. the darn bike wouldn't start, so i slept on it. as soon as i awakened, i realized i hadn't released the choke. did that, and the engine roared to life in one pull.:rolleyes:

    I won a 4.2hp Polini engine on ebay. seems to be the same size/weight of SUBARU/MITSUBISHI engines, but 2.625 times more powerful than the ROBIN. (after that is the 14.4hp monster, which is NINE times more powerful and 56% larger in displacement.)

    the STATON should easily handle the extra hp. this is equivalent to replacing a 200hp 350 cubic-inch Chevy V-8 engine with a 525hp 438 cubic-inch or a 1440hp 531 cubic inch mill...with NO modifications NECESSARY to the vehicle's drivetrain.:shock:

    GEBE lovers, keep the "200hp"; i'm shooting for the "525hp", and later for the "1440 hp" monster engine.

    Myron
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2007
  14. sabrewalt

    sabrewalt Guest

    More Power.

    Ladies and Gentleman, Please give a big tool time welcome to TIM the TOOOOLMAN!!!! Taylor!!
     
  15. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    I pull the starter rope to start and flip the kill switch (I replaced the one that came with my kit) to stop.
     
  16. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    :cool:Nah, Sabre, Tim would replace the 1.6hp ROBIN with the 14.4 hp Polini...

    on the GEBE drivetrain.:shock:

    i can relate to Paul Teutul, Sr., head honcho on the "AMERICAN CHOPPER" show.

    Myron
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2007
  17. BTB Wild

    BTB Wild Guest

    Changed my Mind

    I was going to place an order through Stanton but at the 11th hour, changed my mind to GEBE. This is my first motorized bike and after evaluating many posts here, looking at system photos, running comparison pros and cons etc.
    I believe I made the right decision. A GEBE system remains very much a bicycle experience. Free pedaling, a drive belt that easily pops on and off, no grease, considerably less weight, quick gear change options etc.
    If I wanted more power I would have bought a scooter or motorcycle. Grey areas of illegality are a concern too. The GEBE is a great "hybrid" system IMO and it's still very much a bicycle.
     
  18. dbigkahunna

    dbigkahunna Guest

    Everyone talks about belt vs chain. How about friction drives. They are the simplest. They do have their drawbacks. I have two Demension Edge with 49 cc Tecumch engines. One is a direct drive where I pedal and it starts. I have to be careful when stopping to be sure I have it in low gear or it is a bear to turn over. THe other DE kit has a lever as per the original intention where the engine is lifted off the tire with a kill switch to stop the engine. My third fit is a centifugal clutch. Let off the throttle and it quits driving the tire. All of these drives are a compromise. You give up one thing to gain another. The Staton is tough and robust, where the GEBE is slick and smooth. The friction scrubber drives are basic puttin for fun, but not worth much in wet weather.
     
  19. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    :cool:I have STATON friction drive and gear chain drive. friction was my first, and a good system to break into the motorized world. gear drive was a logical 2nd choice for me.

    NuVinci is next.

    Myron
     
  20. DougC

    DougC Guest

    McMaster-Carr has 96-tooth sprockets that are about 15.5" diameter for $70, and 112-tooth that are a bit over 18" for $100. These are for #40 and #41 chains. I'd probably cut the centers of these out, and attach them to the spokes Whizzer-style, or even attach mounting bands to the rim itself.

    It might not take anything that big however. I'd probably go find out what size rear sprocket the Lifan engines normally used on cycles (for whatever engine size I picked) and then figure out the sprocket:wheel diameter ratio, and then I'd need a sprocket that matched a bicycle wheel to that ratio.

    And RnR sells some big sprockets there w/chains, for only $50.

    -----

    That all is a ways off though.
    That 100cc looks pretty nice for $300--4 speed automatic, electric start, 12-volt electrics, and only 3 lbs heavier than the 50cc... :grin:
    ~
     
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