M
Mary
Guest
Right on, Jim!
I got pulled over today.
- Thread starter Taylor
- Start date
M
Mary
Guest
No worries, Taylor
Hi Taylor,
I also live in OC. I seriously doubt this cop knows what he's talking about. How could police possibly know every motor vehicle law and nuance? Have you ever taken a good look at the Vehicle code or any other governmental code for that matter? Personally, I would not take someone's word for it at the DMV's, either.
We had a rather heated discussion on this topic a few months ago on this board.
I just went to the thread and culled some information I took directly from the CA Vehicle code (online):
1. Definition of Motorized Bicycle: (M. V. Code) Motorized Bicycle
406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.
406. (b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all of the following requirements:
(1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
(2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour on ground level.
(3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power is used to propel the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.
OK. To dissect this paragraph:
1. You have a 2 wheel bicycle.
2. It has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power.
3. It does not have an electric motor.
4. It does not have an automatic transmission.
You are OK on all of the above. This means your motor-assisted bike DOES NOT fall into the category of moped or motorcycle.
This is where I would do some research:
5. Does your engine produce 2 gross brake horsepower or more?
6. Is it capable of propelling your bike at more than 30 mph on level ground?
I would contact the manufacturer and possibly get it in writing what the engine specs are and if your engine is capable of more than 30 mph.
If you cannot prove these 2 points, you might have a problem. If that is the case, then my best guess would be you'd have to register it with DMV as a moped OR get another engine and make sure you are within the law.
IF you are riding a motor-assisted bicycle: You are NOT required to have insurance. You do NOT have to have brake lights. You do NOT need turn signals.
You must wear a bicycle helmet. (Not a motorcycle helmet.) Were you wearing a bike helmet?
Here's what I'd do. I would thoroughly prepare for this. I would take every section of the CA vehicle code that pertains to motor-assisted bicycles, mopeds and motorcycles, copy and paste to Word, dissect the whole thing word-for-word and write a rebuttal. State exactly why you think the officer made an error. Remain calm and focussed. Don't blame, just state the facts.
Yes, it's a pain in the #%$# BUT it will serve you in the long run! (NOT to mention others on this board.) Unless you just don't want to be bothered. That's always an option.
Hope this has been helpful.
Mary
P.S. Not sure about this, but I think CA law requires that your engine be under 49cc's for it to fall under "motor-assisted" bicycle.
P.P.S. ALSO, for anyone riding in CA, I would take the sections of the vehicle code with me every time I ride as well as the specs on your engine.
So, it finally happened today. I got rolled by a motorcycle cop. I was hoping it would be later rather than sooner, because I only finished my bike 3 weeks ago. It is a Schwinn Point Beach, powered by a Dax 70cc engine.
I was riding along a major street, and as I pulled onto my street, I heard "whoop-whoop".F*CK! Are you kidding me... So I pulled over, killed the engine, and hopped off the bike. I talked to the cop, and he said he pulled me over because I need to have all the same stuff a moped does. He listed off: turn signals, left side mirror, tail light, brake light, a moped license plate, a license plate light.... This whole time im thinking: "WTF, i can never get all this stuff onto my bike, so im done. Ill never ride it around here again"
I also, needed a Motorcycle helmet, M2 license, and insurance! "Man this bike is never gonna get used again... f*ck it" He was nice and didnt cite me for insurance, cause I had no idea i needed it. "Insurance for my bike?? WTF??" If he had cited me, it would of cost over $1000.
What he did cite me for was: No motorcycle helmet, no M2 liscense, and no plates. I now have a court date on 6-27, and i go in front of a judge.
I guess my question is: what the **** do I do from here. Will I ever have a chance of riding my bike around here without turning it into a moped?
Sorry for all my *****iness. This is a ****in' great way to start my day
Thanks for any help guys,
Taylor
Hi Taylor,
I also live in OC. I seriously doubt this cop knows what he's talking about. How could police possibly know every motor vehicle law and nuance? Have you ever taken a good look at the Vehicle code or any other governmental code for that matter? Personally, I would not take someone's word for it at the DMV's, either.
We had a rather heated discussion on this topic a few months ago on this board.
I just went to the thread and culled some information I took directly from the CA Vehicle code (online):
1. Definition of Motorized Bicycle: (M. V. Code) Motorized Bicycle
406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.
406. (b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all of the following requirements:
(1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
(2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour on ground level.
(3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power is used to propel the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.
OK. To dissect this paragraph:
1. You have a 2 wheel bicycle.
2. It has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power.
3. It does not have an electric motor.
4. It does not have an automatic transmission.
You are OK on all of the above. This means your motor-assisted bike DOES NOT fall into the category of moped or motorcycle.
This is where I would do some research:
5. Does your engine produce 2 gross brake horsepower or more?
6. Is it capable of propelling your bike at more than 30 mph on level ground?
I would contact the manufacturer and possibly get it in writing what the engine specs are and if your engine is capable of more than 30 mph.
If you cannot prove these 2 points, you might have a problem. If that is the case, then my best guess would be you'd have to register it with DMV as a moped OR get another engine and make sure you are within the law.
IF you are riding a motor-assisted bicycle: You are NOT required to have insurance. You do NOT have to have brake lights. You do NOT need turn signals.
You must wear a bicycle helmet. (Not a motorcycle helmet.) Were you wearing a bike helmet?
Here's what I'd do. I would thoroughly prepare for this. I would take every section of the CA vehicle code that pertains to motor-assisted bicycles, mopeds and motorcycles, copy and paste to Word, dissect the whole thing word-for-word and write a rebuttal. State exactly why you think the officer made an error. Remain calm and focussed. Don't blame, just state the facts.
Yes, it's a pain in the #%$# BUT it will serve you in the long run! (NOT to mention others on this board.) Unless you just don't want to be bothered. That's always an option.
Hope this has been helpful.
Mary
P.S. Not sure about this, but I think CA law requires that your engine be under 49cc's for it to fall under "motor-assisted" bicycle.
P.P.S. ALSO, for anyone riding in CA, I would take the sections of the vehicle code with me every time I ride as well as the specs on your engine.
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E
Egor
Guest
This stuff is so convoluted as to be declared, I got a headache just trying to figure it out. This is what I found on the Ca DMV site. look at the last part of B3. If these bikes were manufactured commercial they would need all the lighting. Not a converted bicycle.
Motorized Bicycle Electric Motor: Safety and Equipment Requirements
24016. (a) A motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406 shall meet the following criteria:
(1) Comply with the equipment and manufacturing requirements for bicycles adopted by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (16 C.F.R. 1512.1, et seq.) or the requirements adopted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (49 C.F.R. 571.1, et seq.) in accordance with the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 (15 U.S.C. Sec. 1381, et seq.) for motor driven cycles.
(2) Operate in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or ceases to function when the brakes are applied, or operate in a manner such that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when released, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to function.
(b) All of the following apply to a motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406:
(1) No person shall operate a motorized bicycle unless the person is wearing a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet that meets the standards described in Section 21212.
(2) A person operating a motorized bicycle is subject to Sections 21200 and 21200.5.
(3) A person operating a motorized bicycle is not subject to the provisions of this code relating to financial responsibility, driver's licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and a motorized bicycle is not a motor vehicle.
(4) A motorized bicycle shall only be operated by a person 16 years of age or older.
(5) Every manufacturer of a motorized bicycle shall certify that it complies with the equipment and manufacturing requirements for bicycles adopted by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (16 C.F.R. 1512.1, et seq.).
(c) No person shall tamper with or modify a motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406 so as to increase the speed capability of the bicycle.
Added Sec. 3, Ch. 804, Stats. 1995. Effective January 1, 1996.
Motorized Bicycle Electric Motor: Safety and Equipment Requirements
24016. (a) A motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406 shall meet the following criteria:
(1) Comply with the equipment and manufacturing requirements for bicycles adopted by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (16 C.F.R. 1512.1, et seq.) or the requirements adopted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (49 C.F.R. 571.1, et seq.) in accordance with the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966 (15 U.S.C. Sec. 1381, et seq.) for motor driven cycles.
(2) Operate in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or ceases to function when the brakes are applied, or operate in a manner such that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when released, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to function.
(b) All of the following apply to a motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406:
(1) No person shall operate a motorized bicycle unless the person is wearing a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet that meets the standards described in Section 21212.
(2) A person operating a motorized bicycle is subject to Sections 21200 and 21200.5.
(3) A person operating a motorized bicycle is not subject to the provisions of this code relating to financial responsibility, driver's licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and a motorized bicycle is not a motor vehicle.
(4) A motorized bicycle shall only be operated by a person 16 years of age or older.
(5) Every manufacturer of a motorized bicycle shall certify that it complies with the equipment and manufacturing requirements for bicycles adopted by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (16 C.F.R. 1512.1, et seq.).
(c) No person shall tamper with or modify a motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406 so as to increase the speed capability of the bicycle.
Added Sec. 3, Ch. 804, Stats. 1995. Effective January 1, 1996.
M
Mary
Guest
Hi Egor,
The above section pertains to an electric motor. Quoting from your post beginning on line 3, "Motorized Bicycle Electric Motor: Safety and Equipment Requirements
24016. (a) A motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406 shall meet the following criteria:"
Section 406 (b) applies to electric motors only, not gas powered.
Best,
Mary
P.S. I am sure it could be persuasively argued that no average citizen could be reasonably expected to know all the nuances of the vehicle code. Even police officers do not know and it's their job! The law is way too convoluted and dis-integrated.
Here's a thought: I think our lawmakers ought to stop making any new laws UNTIL they have gone through all existing laws and made them clear by integrating all the amendments, definition changes, clarifications, etc. into one coherent group. One after the other. Oh, but that may be too much work.
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kenster
Member
I'm not sure what your reasoning is regarding it not fitting into the 406(a) motorized bicycle classification which requires insurance. Most states use this same definition "automatic transmission" when descibing a motorized bicycle or moped.
What differentiates A moped from a motor assisted bicycle?
Taylor
New Member
Hey guys, sorry I havent said anything recently, I have been a very busy lately. Thanks for all the help u guys have given me, its like my own personal legal team.
I have done some more research, and I've found out whats going on.
- First of all, the cop was in the right, and everything he cited me for was correct.
- Contrary to some, there is no difference between a Motorized Bicycle, and a Moped. In fact, go to the Moped section in the CVC's, and you will directed to the motorized bike section. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc_index_m.htm
- I was so confused at first, until i realized i was looking at the requirements for 406(b), electric bikes. I do fall into the requirements for 406(a), under 2 hp, and less than 30 mph.
-Displacement of the engine has nothing to do with it. A motorized bike is a motorized bike, and as long as its under 150 cc's all the same laws apply. If its above 150, then its a full blown motorcycle. If you guys find anything to the contrary, please tell me.
- Everyone keeps saying, "motor assisted bicycle", but i cant find anywhere in the CVC's that uses this term. Please let me know how it will help me.
- Everything that motman812 posted is what i need. In fact if you check out the CVC section for Motorized bicycles, everything is there. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc_index_m.htm#motorbicycle
- So I need to get a DOT approved helmet (easy), a M2 license (whats the best way to do that, i only have my driving permit right now), register my bike with the state ($18 bucks, 1 form, easy), and mirrors, (was planning on getting em anyway).
Two things are still bugging me though. Insurance. What do i do about that. MotorbikeMike? You said something about insurance not being necessary, but the cop wanted to cite me for it. Whats the scoop, and whats the best way to deal with it? Oh and by the way, I actually was wearing a helmet when i got pulled over, but it was a bicycle helmet. I'm not sure what caused the cop to pull me over.
The other is my lighting situation. I have front and rear bicycle lights installed on my ride. Will those satisfy the requirements for a head and tail lamp? Do they have to be operated during the day? I don't have a stop light, and i do not intend to deal with the complexity. If any of you know of a way to make my rear bike light operate by pulling the brake handle, id love to hear. However, i think having no stop light will be the one thing I'm not legal on. I was thankful the CVC's didn't require turn lights, and it makes my life so much simpler. I use hand signals anyway.
Thanks for all the help guys, i hope to get this all sorted out soon.
Taylor
I have done some more research, and I've found out whats going on.
- First of all, the cop was in the right, and everything he cited me for was correct.
- Contrary to some, there is no difference between a Motorized Bicycle, and a Moped. In fact, go to the Moped section in the CVC's, and you will directed to the motorized bike section. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc_index_m.htm
- I was so confused at first, until i realized i was looking at the requirements for 406(b), electric bikes. I do fall into the requirements for 406(a), under 2 hp, and less than 30 mph.
-Displacement of the engine has nothing to do with it. A motorized bike is a motorized bike, and as long as its under 150 cc's all the same laws apply. If its above 150, then its a full blown motorcycle. If you guys find anything to the contrary, please tell me.
- Everyone keeps saying, "motor assisted bicycle", but i cant find anywhere in the CVC's that uses this term. Please let me know how it will help me.
- Everything that motman812 posted is what i need. In fact if you check out the CVC section for Motorized bicycles, everything is there. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc_index_m.htm#motorbicycle
- So I need to get a DOT approved helmet (easy), a M2 license (whats the best way to do that, i only have my driving permit right now), register my bike with the state ($18 bucks, 1 form, easy), and mirrors, (was planning on getting em anyway).
Two things are still bugging me though. Insurance. What do i do about that. MotorbikeMike? You said something about insurance not being necessary, but the cop wanted to cite me for it. Whats the scoop, and whats the best way to deal with it? Oh and by the way, I actually was wearing a helmet when i got pulled over, but it was a bicycle helmet. I'm not sure what caused the cop to pull me over.
The other is my lighting situation. I have front and rear bicycle lights installed on my ride. Will those satisfy the requirements for a head and tail lamp? Do they have to be operated during the day? I don't have a stop light, and i do not intend to deal with the complexity. If any of you know of a way to make my rear bike light operate by pulling the brake handle, id love to hear. However, i think having no stop light will be the one thing I'm not legal on. I was thankful the CVC's didn't require turn lights, and it makes my life so much simpler. I use hand signals anyway.
Thanks for all the help guys, i hope to get this all sorted out soon.
Taylor
M
Mary
Guest
Hi Taylor,
I will be interested in what the judge has to say. Please be sure and let us know the details.
Thanks,
Mary
I will be interested in what the judge has to say. Please be sure and let us know the details.
Thanks,
Mary
M
Mary
Guest
After doing more research (sigh!) tonight, I have come to the conclusion that I could be wrong on this whole thing. I am going to find out to my satisfaction before I go any further with the motored bike thing.
IF it turns out I have to pay $250 for a motorcycle course and wear a motorcylcle helmet which would look pretty stupid on a motor assisted bike, I may as well sell the bike and motor kit and just get a motorcycle.
Best,
Mary
IF it turns out I have to pay $250 for a motorcycle course and wear a motorcylcle helmet which would look pretty stupid on a motor assisted bike, I may as well sell the bike and motor kit and just get a motorcycle.
Best,
Mary
M
Mary
Guest
more interesting stuff
01-07-2007, 11:45 AM
thatsdax
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 433
FEDERAL LAW SAYS YES !!! And now State Law too ? Yes !!!!
Interesting that the new law passed in AZ now conforms to the Federal law making motor assisted bicycles of 48cc or less technically a bicycle and are legal to go anywhere a bicycle is allowed to go with no license. I did not know that it was a federal law all this time. And those states that do not allow them are bucking Federal law. I learned all this by going to the spooky tooth website and also procuring the federal and new state law information forwarded to me by spookytooth. Way to go Spooky !!! Now..If we can just get all 50 states to abide by federal law ..That would be Great !!! Help keep America Free !!!! and ... Fun too...Imagine that.. Having fun and conserving fuel at the same time. Wow !! What a concept. Enjoy the ride....
01-07-2007, 11:45 AM
thatsdax
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 433
FEDERAL LAW SAYS YES !!! And now State Law too ? Yes !!!!
Interesting that the new law passed in AZ now conforms to the Federal law making motor assisted bicycles of 48cc or less technically a bicycle and are legal to go anywhere a bicycle is allowed to go with no license. I did not know that it was a federal law all this time. And those states that do not allow them are bucking Federal law. I learned all this by going to the spooky tooth website and also procuring the federal and new state law information forwarded to me by spookytooth. Way to go Spooky !!! Now..If we can just get all 50 states to abide by federal law ..That would be Great !!! Help keep America Free !!!! and ... Fun too...Imagine that.. Having fun and conserving fuel at the same time. Wow !! What a concept. Enjoy the ride....
H
HoughMade
Guest
The federal law only has to do with manufacturering regulations and has nothing to do with registration, licensing, etc. That remains a state law issue and if a given state wants to adopt that standard in reference to its registration requirements, it may, but that is not what the federal law deals with.
