If vendors want to give us a "real deal".......

Discussion in 'Dealer Reviews' started by arceeguy, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Offer us our choice of 50cc or "80cc" kits for $150 (or less), with shipping included. The prices I see here in the vendor area are not anything to write home about, and this is why I did not buy my kits from anyone advertising here.

    I got my two kits from eBay, from two different vendors. one from California, and one in Canada. Both kits were about $154.99 with shipping and insurance. The lower the price, the greater the volume - and that is how you make more money! People will be buying multiple kits just to keep a spare parts inventory, or to have two motorized bikes. (they're small, you can have a bunch!)

    Thanks for listening!
     

  2. hill climber

    hill climber Member

    i agree, $150 shipped , send me 2
     
  3. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Being in California, I would imagine a HT kit should go for less than $120 since all these kits are being unloaded from container ships on the west coast! No doubt, shipping is a substantial cost, but a lot of vendors are making plenty of money on shipping for slapping a label on a box and having UPS pick it up.
     
  4. kitcarguy

    kitcarguy Member

    arceeguy let me ask you something. Are you just assuming that these companies are making a ton of money off of these kits? shipping from china is just the start (assuming the company is buying container loads of these motors. I know personally the products my company has coming from China range anywhere from 3-5k for shipping.

    So now the motors are here. Next is customs (got to pay the tax. ) Then if you have to have them shipped to your location (lets say from Cali to florida) The container might have to be unloaded, warehoused, then loaded onto a truck to be delivered to you.

    Once you get them to your location They have to be unloaded from the truck, inventoried, and put on the shelves. This all takes labor and as you know labor costs money. From there you fill your orders, and ship them to fine customers such as yourself.

    From the supplier end of things that $50 motor (assuming cost here) you had shipped from china now cost you $90-100 after all the above was added in.

    Now lets move on to your "Lower the price greater the volume theory" While this obviously works in some business, something like motorized bikes is a niche market. I would be willing to bet that repeat buys from customers (average consumers) are not that high.

    Just my 2 cents
     
  5. astring

    astring Member

    Just to add some reality to this. I for one would probably buy from a Motoredbike poster (like Bluecollar or Dax) over one of these ebay guys and a $150 price tag would get me to pull the trigger. I already have a nice GEBE and a Staton friction drive, but for $150 I'd buy a happytime just for fun.
     
  6. kitcarguy

    kitcarguy Member


    I would buy based on vendor reputation over price any day. As you said you would buy the $150 HT just for fun. But would you continue to purchase them just for fun? How many could you possible buy just for fun?
     
  7. hill climber

    hill climber Member

    just bought my second ht last night on ebay, i know im takin a chance, but how could you not the total shipped with insurance was only$102.99 it was an auction for a 55cc kit from livefastmotors. at that price i,ll buuy as many as i can get. the folks around here will buy em up as fast as i can put them together. i dont make anything on the kit just $50 for the install, just want some people to ride with.
     
  8. astring

    astring Member

    I may build one for my brother and his son. Who knows at that price.
     
  9. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    Question
    How do we know that the current prices are nothing to write home about ?

    Point #1 -- Those in business have to be able to make at least a reasonable profit -- so as to stay in business..

    Point #2 -- Pricing competition is the only thing that keeps prices down..

    Point #3 -- As a consumer - it is none of my business what a company may be paying for said product that I am interested in buying..

    Point #4 -- If service regarding product is important to me - should also be taken into account along with total price..

    Buy That Thing and Ride That Thing - Mountainman
     
  10. astring

    astring Member

    All of that being said, these Chinese engines are not reliable enough to be used as transportation. I paid a lot for my GEBE because I can use it to commute, a happytime simply can't be used for that (its utility is really limited). Since these are strictly for fun and not serious transportation I personally can't see paying more than $150 (postage included). I do not care what vendors pay for these, but personally I have my price point and it is not being met.
     
  11. kitcarguy

    kitcarguy Member

    Are GEBE engines not made in china? Not trying to be smart, I just don't know
     
  12. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    Actually there are no GEBE engines. The GEBE kit uses both the Robin-Subaru 4 stroke and the Tanaka 33CC and 40CC 2 Stroke. Both are made in Japan.
     
  13. kitcarguy

    kitcarguy Member

    gotcha.

    Thanks for the clarification :)
     
  14. wavygravy

    wavygravy Guest

    pretty sad when a guy has to add sinophobia to try & sell us on a product, leave the bigotry equasion factor out of this , most of us are smarter than that! we dont hate the chinese people , just the management at the factorys they work for!
     
  15. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    I'm not trying to sell you anything, and a lot of you are bigots, whether you care to admit it or not.

    You all can go on and pay higher prices for your kits just "because". These engines should cost a lot less than they do, and the quality can be higher too. I recently bought a power mower from WalMart. It has a 4 cycle OHV engine (built in China, for you sinohobes) and it runs great. Very powerful and quiet. It cost $129.95. It weighs more than a HT engine, is in a bigger box than a HT engine, and is more complex than a HT engine. Yet, I paid less for it than I paid for my HT engines, even with the "slow boat" from China, customs tariffs, etc.

    My intention was to try and get a vendor to step in and give us some lower prices than we can get on eBay - but I guess you people would like to pay more. Go for it!
     
  16. spunout

    spunout Member

    driving the price down, most certainly will not drive the quality up.......
     
  17. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    if and when - we see MB engines or bikes complect at WalMart
    yes - the price will be way down

    don't expect to see that day - soon anyway

    it has always been a common practice when buying (whatever)
    the more we buy -- less the price per unit
    if I wanted a real deal
    maybe get together with some others -- buy 5 or 10 ???


    For now -- Ride That Thing - Mountainman
     
  18. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Not necessarily true. If volume increased, importers could put more pressure on manufacturers to step up quality control, otherwise the big engine orders will go to the manufacturer that will provide the quality AND price.

    hill climber just stated he bought his on an eBay auction for $102 with shipping and insurance. Do you think livefastmotors made any money on that transaction? I think he did. Otherwise, he would have put a reserve price on the auction and any future auctions. I used the "buy it now" option on mine, just to make the transaction quick and easy but maybe I'll just bid on an auction next time around.

    Don't you guys think that 50 bucks shipping, no matter where you live, is a little excessive? Especially if you are on the left coast where these things are coming in by the container load?

    Now I for one, would be willing to pay more for better quality ($179 for a kit) - but the manufacturer would have to offer an engine with a cast iron sleeve, high quality hardware, and a manufacturers warranty with a factory service center here in the USA. For now, they are all the same to me - regardless whether they come from BoyGoFast, Dax, or anyone. Granted, some vendors here are very helpful and "make things right" if there is a defect, but you are paying for that. They don't get free parts to give away when a "warranty" issue happens.

    I consider a HT engine to have no warranty whatsoever, and that I am the warranty if anything goes wrong. There is no factory support or warranty, so costs should be a lot lower than they are IMO.
     
  19. TwoWalks

    TwoWalks Member

    Absolutely - My vendor is on the east coast and shipped to me on the west coast for $25.00.

    Yes there are differences in price and there are differences in the quality of parts from one vendor to another.

    You seem very committed to idea of vendors selling "China Motors" for under $150 shipped and you seem committed to the belief that lower prices mean higher volume so my question of the day: "Why don't you import them and sell them for your chosen price?"
     
  20. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    I bought engines from BoyGoFast and Powerkingshop, and totally disassembled both to compare the quality, finish, and parts compatibility. I took measurements of everything from wrist pins to piston ring thickness,and have many clear hi-res photos to illustrate the differences. I'll have a complete write-up coming soon.

    As far as selling them myself, the thought HAS crossed my mind. At this point, I would probably be inclined to disassemble each engine and perform "QC" here until I could trust the manufacturer to do so. As mentioned, importing goods from China is not for the faint hearted, and probably not for anyone who can't speak Chinese since communications will be very important. I am pretty sure that the people who import these engines import lots of other products and they do not depend on bicycle engines for all their income. For example, Powerkingshop sells many items made in China (power equipment, etc) and they are just enjoying the MB surge and won't be too disappointed if/when the fad goes away. I really don't have a desire to get into the importing business, and I don't speak Chinese. This doesn't mean that we can't ask vendors for better quality and lower prices so they can pass that message up "the food chain" so to speak. If we were to take your logic, anyone that is unhappy with health insurance should STFU and start their own insurance company, right?
     
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