Engine Trouble I'm so new, I have no idea what I'm doing

Discussion in '2-Stroke Engines' started by bkrs0351, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. bkrs0351

    bkrs0351 New Member

    Hi, name's Walt, I've been reading lots and lots of things from this forum and another motorized bike forums.

    Thing is, this is my first bike (As expected from the title) and I happened to buy it second hand.
    It was built and the man said the rear wheel wasn't running so he sold it to me at 200$ CAD.

    I know a little about engines from reading all the How to trouble shoot and MUST READ threads on here.

    But it seems, no where does it tell me actually how to operate this thing?
    Everyone just seems to know like it's riding a bike?

    here's some pic
    [​IMG]



    1. What is what? It seems the clutch is the lever underneath the left hand side of the handle, I press it and it pulls the clutch plate outward.
    What's the resetting thing? It's the trigger facing forward on left side when pressed, resets the gears back to 1. When I pull the clutch thing it goes from 1 to 2 and then to 3. No Idea what all these does.
    [​IMG]

    2. The rear wheel won't move if I install the clutch pads. I can roll the wheel forward but it's very hard, when ever I move a few inches, it jerks forward and I can hear that engine sound when you're trying to hand start a lawn mower, That engine cranking sound before it turns on.
    [​IMG]

    so i removed them since bike wouldnt budge with them on. I used break cleaners to clear out some grimes inside the large gear.
    http://s1006.photobucket.com/user/merry0331/media/P7070120-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10


    3. Is the oil I have it the right one? I bought a 5L regular gas from Esso that means if I put in 50 ml oil every 1L of gas (1:20) it should be ok?
    [​IMG]

    4. Can I ride the bike without engine being reved up with it? like how a car free rolls when you have the clutch pressed. but i have no idea how this bike's clutch system works.

    thanks for reading such a painfully obvious questions to you pros, I'm just a guy trying to get in to this.

    I'm hoping to extend the stock exhaust pipe by wrapping a metal can stuffed with steel wool. would that make things quieter? or somehow cause engine failure due to failure to properly exhaust???


    So how do I even get this thing operational? There's no manual anywhere. Do I just keep pedaling until I reach some speed and press some button and it happens?? But my bike's rear wheel won't even move when I try to move unless I take the clutch pads out??



    so many questions...

    oh by the way, the person who put this bike together tried to hide the kill switch, (i'm guessing it is since it fits the description)
    http://s1006.photobucket.com/user/merry0331/media/P7070123-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4
     

  2. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    Welcome aboard, Walt.

    Oh boy.....this won't be too easy. That clutch handle that you've got there is something that's a bit more complicated than standard and I'm not going to be able to tell you much about it. But picture a clutch handle that is more like a standard brake handle; you pull it in and the cable pulls against the brake. Or clutch, in this case. You're gonna need to look over that handle and figure out how to get it to do the same thing. (This is assuming that the rear wheel is okay. No seized bearings or anything like that.) One you've got it to where you can engage and disengage the clutch pressure plate using your handle and the cable it's attached to, then, yes, you merely start pedalling the bike until you're rolling along at a few mph. Then you engage the clutch and this 'roll starting' will fire up the engine.

    That oil in the photo is the right stuff. But a 20:1 mixture sounds like it's a bit too thick on oil. Unless the engine still needs to be broken in, that is. If that engine's been ridden and it's broken in properly, then 40:1 is about right. Though I think some folks like a bit more oily mix. But not 20:1.
     
  3. bkrs0351

    bkrs0351 New Member

    THANKS for the REPLY!!

    Sorry for the lateness of this as I was a little busy for a few days.

    So the main thing I'm worried about is the clutch, How does it work? I know that normal brake clutch and clutch on a car engine works but this one seems like as I click in the clutch lever the number goes up and it pulls the clutch plate away from the engine. So a little like a traditional clutch but I'm not sure why it would have numbers from 1 -3 to make it seem like it's some type of gear system? 2 cycle engine don't change gears do they? Well I mean, wouldn't it be all one speed? Just how fast you go would be determined from the engine accel pull.

    Also Is there a way that 2cycle engine is beyond any use? I hope I wasn't scammed into buying a bicycle that doesn't even start.. Any way to check for engine seizing before I start it?

    Oh also to start the bike, that means I have to pedal really fast until I reach some speed and let go of the clutch and it'll start? What if the clutch grabs the engine but it doesn't start? Will it make me stop and launch me forward??

    Thanks!!
     
  4. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Well-Known Member

    If you are able to spin the crankshaft, it should run. I don't think you can determine the health of the engine until you have the clutch repaired. One step at the time.
     
  5. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    it has a combined brake/gear shift assembly. weird that it also has a standard friction thumb shifter there.

    which one has the cables? the 1,2,3 you mention is the gear shifter indicating what gear its on. not a clutch at all.


    a sensible person would look at cables, follow them from lever to source, and see what works what. but. rear brake and front gear shift is usually on the LEFT, front brake and rear gear shifts are on the RIGHT. clutch on LEFT. throttle on the RIGHT.

    hint. gear cables are thinner than brake cables ;)

    there are standards, conventions!


    asking all these questions...theres just too many at once, and really, they are so basic i wonder really...

    so. to ride a bike. feet on pedals, move forward. balance. dont show off the no hands too early.

    to start engine. hold clutch lever in. roll bike forward. release clutch when possible. use choke etc if not firing instantly. make sure it has fuel and spark and all the other bits. yes, the bike will coast when the clutch is pulled in, just like a car, its a clutch :) if it stops and falls over, you werent going fast enough when you released the clutch.


    the clutch. well, yes. lever pushes rod inside shaft that backs plate off pads. you thought far enough into it to remove pads but couldnt think any further? once again, trace cables from source to lever. fiddle. experiment. chances of you breaking something are minimal!

    from the sounds of it, it needed an adjustment. takes ten seconds. most engines need "cracking" if theyve sat around for a while. the clutch sticks. take covers off. look inspect and see.

    im sorry.

    yes, the oil is correct. says two stroke on it :) but im sorry i cant help you because seriously, these are ALL questions that DONT NEED ASKING. you havent asked one new or strange question. other than asking them in the first place :). enginewise, the answers are all here on a thread somewhere. bikewise.... oh dear. countless millions of books in various languages describing how to setup a bicycle. read these. understand. to recable and reindex a 9 speed shimano rear hub is NOT DIFFICULT when you understand them. just the same as a 5 speed, but tighter. operation has remained the same since circa 1960...
     
  6. bkrs0351

    bkrs0351 New Member

    Thanks for the reply everyone, But yes I was confused very because the "clutch" for this bike wasn't what I thought it would be. In motorcycle and in cars, you have to hold the clutch down, as for this one, I had to push the 1,2,3 lever forward and click it into 3rd place and it holds the clutch out and the trigger in the front releases the clutch making it stick again.

    So I got the clutch down now, and I was too afraid to actually ride it since It will probably come to a dead stop and make me fall over.
    I learned that you can kick start this bike so I'll try to look in to the stickied my engine won't start guide first.

    Oh also, how does this work then? If I came to a red light, Would I have to press on the clutch? or actually just leave it??
     
  7. crassius

    crassius Well-Known Member

    I've seen that kind of lever - I found it way too confusing and recommend getting a normal clutch-only lever - that one was made to also run the brakes or something, but I find having two levers on the left works just fine.
     
  8. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    ditto this.

    sorry if my previous reply was a touch...rude.

    1. get rid of this clutch set up! go scavenge a left brake lever from another bike and fit that! who the %$#^ puts a clutch on the gear shifter? nice idea, but wow. nasty.

    2. looking at the whole setup, you have a few options. upgrade your levers and shifters. you can get a combined front/back lever for the right hand, freeing the left side up for just a clutch lever. money?

    you already have shifters. the old old cheap horrible ones. so at least, get TWO left hand brake levers. one brake, one clutch. kits normally come with a clutch lever with a locking pin on it so you can coast in neutral. then dispose of that combined gear brake thing!

    usually on a derailleur, personally at least, i cut the cables. use an old spoke/ stiff wire to replace the cable at the shifting mechanism and just "lock" it in one gear. usually a low one, because i like to just twiddle the pedals when going slow and taking off. sometimes the "hi lo" adjusters are enough to do this. no wire needed. normally you dont need to pedal :) it can be annoying if you chose the gear thats just a bit too low for that really long steep hill youll always encounter :jester:
     
  9. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    :jester: kickstarting.

    stand beside bike. position pedal so its about halfway round. lift rear wheel off ground by frame (seats tend to fall apart unexpectedly) and press foot hard down on pedal with clutch released. if it fires up, pull in clutch before dropping rear wheel to ground.

    it is possible :)


    i think...yep...i does...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2MX3CwG5dk

    youll see i learnt about seats later :jester: but its pretty easy to do when you get the knack :)
     
  10. KCvale

    KCvale Motorized Bicycle Vendor

    Though I agree with dumping the brake/shift lever clutch my fellow builders and I part ways there.

    I believe the handlebar controls are the single most important safety concern on an MB especially in a panic situation and that anything more than a single lever and twist control on each side of the handlebars is not just a frustration to learn to operate (not just you, everyone that rides it) but a downright safety issue especially in a panic situation.

    That being the case I treat all mountain bikes the same, one rotary control and lever have to go to add two more.

    Since I am in the process of building an MB on an ever common and popular 21-speed mountain bike I took the time to take before and after pics to illustrate what I consider to be the best way to do the handlebars and standard shop practice for the last 50 or so builds here.

    This is the bike I am building now, a new $275 2012 Diamondback Outlook Before pic.

    [​IMG]

    You will note that bike already has rotary shifters and independent brake levers, meaning each side control is independent and not some trigger shift/brake control single unit.

    A rotary and lever need to go and the most useless control is the front derailleur 3-speed rotary, I mean come on, you have motor power and 7 gears for the pedal side so I yank it all, rotary control, cable, and the front derailleur mech from the bike.

    If you are not happy with the front sprocket size just move the chain to another sprocket, piece of cake and usually just the middle sprocket but the pedal side has a tensioner so it is mindless and since the gear change system for the front is gone it stays where you put it.

    That leaves a lever and with the cool self adjusting dual pull brake levers available you can loose one to make room for the clutch lever.

    The result is a 7-speed MB most anyone that has rode a bike can understand After control change pic. No it is not a done build obviously but you get the idea.

    [​IMG]

    The right side a twist to go faster, a lever to slow down and neither are operated at the same time.
    On the left you have your pedal gears twist shift which won't be used a lot for most, and your locking clutch lever which is used a lot and again they are never used at the same time.

    For this specific bike topic since you got the bike for $200 and it has a mess for controls you just buy the dual pull brake lever, a locking clutch lever, yank the front shift system and buy a 7-speed rotary shifter control for rear gears.

    Because of the useless parts you have to do your bars this way figure about $75 when it's all said and done with a 7speed rotary but as far as I am concerned other than a nice seat your whole MB experience is from the handlebars and I feel they should be as comfortable and easy to mindlessly use as the gas and brake on a car.

    I take that a step farther by tossing the hard rubber grips and putting BMX foam grips on the throttle barrel and left side space next to shifter as nothing fatigues me more when riding than vibration in hands, even the tiny bit the road and engine produce but that's just me. On the other hand a good enough cheap comfort item to warrant it as a standard shop practice item on everything as well.

    I hope that helps some of you ;-}
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2013
    bluegoatwoods likes this.
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