japan vs. china

Discussion in 'Performance Mods' started by jonboy2five, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. jonboy2five

    jonboy2five Member

    i just wanted to warn everyone that it looks like all the misaligned manifolds and gaskets are mostly on chinese motors. i took my mitsubishi apart hoping for some increased flow and everything lined up on both the intake and exhaust side. thats not to say you cant port them of course, but as far as easy improvements i didnt see any. they seemed to do a very good job from the factory, imvho...
     

  2. jlebh1

    jlebh1 Member

    japanese motors are far better than our cheap HT ones, like the honda and other jap brands
     
  3. China = cheap
    Japan = quality
     
  4. jlebh1

    jlebh1 Member

    exactly^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
  5. beach cruzin

    beach cruzin Guest

    China sucks IMHO
     
  6. BeachBum

    BeachBum New Member

    Honda engines from Taiwan are also nice. (Plus they, and their Taiwanese parts, are usually cheaper than the Japanese counterparts)
     
  7. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    yes - I would rather pay some extra - and get a quality MB ride..

    it is all in what we are looking for ---

    I just wish to ride with the LEST AMOUNT OF BREAKDOWNS = Japan made


    It is at this time - just common sense - let's look at HAND TOOLS made -
    if made in the US or Japan -- cost more - but in most cases - quality
    made in China -- may be able to find what I want in the 99 cent bin.........

    Ride That Thing - Mountainman
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2008
  8. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    It is a little more complex than Japan-good, China-bad.

    Many Chinese manufacturers have the ability to compete with Japanese and American manufacturers. The issue is economic, not some sort of inherent anything. The HT engines are manufactured to a certain price point were more advanced aluminum alloys and manufacturing standards are not economically viable.

    What would a HT type of engine manufactured to the same standards as my Honda or a Mitsu cost? Here's a clue- what does an entire kit with a Honda or Mitsu cost? It's not under $200 which is where the HTs are at. Starts at about twice that and goes up. Do you seriously think that if Chinese manufacturers wanted to, they could not manufacture a higher quality michine at that price? Of course the could.

    However, a distinct choice was made that the volume business and little competition is at a lower price point and that is where they want to be. Japanese manufacturers used this exact marketing strategy 40 years ago. "Made in Japan", to many, used to mean "junk" and disposable cars and weak alloys and low quality.
     
  9. az cra-z

    az cra-z Guest

    The last small Honda engine I looked at was made in Thailand. Hopefully they are keeping an eye on quality. Robin-Subaru is entirely Japanese, and the best in my opinion. Here is Staton's page on Honda vs. R/S: http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3235
     
  10. Simon_A

    Simon_A Member

    Houghmade hit it exactly. These things are made to a dollar value, not a quality standard.

    They have to be usable, but not lavish.

    Like anything, someone would have said, lets make a engine for bicycles, then they would have put out tenders for all the plants that could manufacture them and the contract went to the cheapest. Not the best engineered, not the finest hi-tech build, the cheapest to maximise profits.

    This is done worldwide, with every manufacturer. Of all of the engines sold, we are the 1% willing to pay more for a better engine, but manufacturing have to support the other 99% to be viable.
     
  11. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    I am thinking back to when working as an equip tec - there was some really good sandpaper that we had been using for many years - cost was around 50 dollars a roll - when we went to get a new roll one day - something was wrong - the city had went with what they called - the low bid - yes, they bought some blue sandpaper alright - but - it was not the old made in US that we had been using - it now said made in China - at the most it was only 25 % efficient - cost was half of quality sandpaper - lose 3/4 to save a 1/2 -- I don't see a savings there.

    My buddy bought an HT before I had my MB - I rode it for a little while one day - saw nothing wrong with the performance - when buying my engine though - I just wanted something made in Japan, Europe or maybe even the US.
    Well with less that 100 miles on it - my friend sold that HT to another friend of ours - it's broken down today - elect problem - as seen a lot here..

    I wish to Ride That Thing - Mountainman
     
  12. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    I run a Chinese clone of a Japanese engine on my trike. 3,000 miles and counting.
     
  13. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    That pretty much sums it up!

    I remember in the 70's and 80's that everyone was worried about the trade deficit with Japan.

    The "gas powered" products I own that are built in China include two portable generators, power mower, motorcycle and (of course) a couple of bicycle engines. The "happy times" engines are by far the lowest quality of the bunch, but they obviously do not represent all products from China.

    I will give the HT engines credit where credit is due. The engine internals (cylinder bore, piston, rod, crank) are finished to a much higher standard than the overall finish of the engine. I can live with the casting flash on the cylinder cooling fins knowing that the bore is accurate, and is nicely honed and chrome plated for long life.

    Most consumer grade power equipment has the piston wearing against a plain aluminum bore. (Briggs "Kool Bore", etc) My motorcycle has a cast iron cylinder, and the generators and lawn mower have cast iron cylinder sleeves.
    No doubt here that Chinese manufacturers are capable of producing quality products at an affordable price!
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  14. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    Pay 2X as much and get 10X better.
     
  15. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    You can keep telling yourself that, and keep paying twice as much while the rest of us enjoy our products made in China, Korea, Thailand, India or wherever.

    I wouldn't have been able to afford a 5KW portable generator if it wasn't imported. It always starts within two pulls and is very quiet.

    The lawn mower was $129 and has an overhead valve 6.5 engine. It is very quiet and starts easily. It is a clone of a Honda GXV commercial engine. For the same money, I could have gotten a cr@p mower with a noisy and antiquated L-Head Briggs and Stratton engine (aluminum bore) or spent twice as much to get a mower with a genuine Honda engine - but a consumer grade OHC engine. (Once again, aluminum bore and the timing belt is swimming in crankcase oil - huh?) I'd rather have the Chinese built clone w/cast iron bore. It'll be running long after the deck rots away.

    When buying anything, you have to be careful, as Mountainman has pointed out. Because sometimes less expensive ends up costing you more.
     
  16. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    @erceeguy
    Paying twice as much doesn't necessarily mean u need to go to another country....paying twice as much means u get the best possible version of what that country has to offer.
    MOST if the problems i've seen here are from ppl who buy the cheapest kit possible then have nothing but problems.......it's made too cheap.
    Cheap is inherently nasty. :yuck:
     
  17. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    PS...i much prefer Japan from China but don't get me wrong...the Chinese DO make some good stuff(provided it's built up to a standard & not down to a price)
     
  18. astring

    astring Member

    just a side note, you can pick up R/S engines on gopeds on craigslist. Make a low ball offer you may be surprised (they just want to get rid of those after getting hurt).
     
  19. jlebh1

    jlebh1 Member

    paying twice as much doesn't mean twice as good some sellers mark up there kits heaps. a good seller in australia of the happy time engines is Zbox its $300AUD for an 80cc kit its great quality and the service is fantastic.
     
  20. jlebh1

    jlebh1 Member

    (delivered)
     
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