Last Nights Chat with Augi

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by MotorbikeMike, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. Hi guys, these are reposts of PM after permission was granted. I never post openly pm's unless permission is granted.

    Originally Posted by MotorbikeMike
    Hi Augi, thanks for writing me. I don't seem to know what is going on here at times. I have seen what appears to be a pretty significant trend by the "Happy Time" people to completely ignore the Whizzer.

    I think it's a stinkin shame that these "so-called Americans" would rather buy a cheap (in every sense of the word) Chinese engine, smuggled illegally into this country, and then, not only NOT buy, but completely ignore the ONLY American company that is promoting Motor Bicycles, AND who is not doing business with our enemy, the Red Cloud (Communist China).

    Have all our heros all died for nothing? The freakin chinese are taking the path paved by our other sucessful former enemy Japan. EXCEPT that we took all weapons of mass destruction away from the Imperial Empire of Japan. Not so with China! Do not believe for one new york minute that those boot-lickin Chinese care one whit about us, you or anyone!

    They have never, and will NOT improve this engine. It is a "dead" product, and between my influence and a couple other guys in 2002-2004 and the groundwork laid by Don Grube (too stinkin' chinese himself to be any good to anyone but himself!!!) the improvemants were made, BUT as we are a "No-Ship" country, nothing more can ever be expected from RED CHINA

    There are a few people here who build outstanding bikes, Dan at IRide being high on that short list, Zomby's work, along with Warlock, and a couple others come to mind. Guys who are getting out the torches and getting creative.

    NOW Please, do not, for a moment think, that I don't know, that not every one posseses the skills and tools to do these things. I too have little or no money, and rely on my collections from past years, and do NOT have a big budget, I get it done "by hook and crook" so many times. But, the masses do not even try to come up, it seems to me. They seem to be satisfied to be the Bottom of the Barrel and ridiculously proud of it!

    The rest are content to screw the cheapest stinkin engine, on the cheapest POS bike they can get free or otherwise, and call it a "board track racer" or some other preposterous thing.

    Sometimes I think I am just burned out! I have tried to take the Motor Bicycle hobby above a 69 dollar Huffy, and a dammed illegal engine with bearings made from WW2 scrap, from downed fighter planes.

    I cannot figure out how many will grow into Whizzers, but maybe at least one catagory that was called Whizzer (something or other) is a good idea?

    I am currently, and have always been ready to help people, and many who have bought from my competition, and me fully knowing that whatever satisfaction I get from helping them is all I will ever get from this association.

    I'm tired, and telling the truth, and you know how unpopular that can be?

    On another note, I do have what apperas to be an NOS .120 spoked square-sided front drum wheel that is marker "Sun Products" and may actually be an earlier Worksman wheel. It has been in the sea air a bit longer than was a good idea, and is surface rusted. I can take pics if you like. A new worksman is 150.00. I;'ll take pics for you, and if you might want it, I would sell it for 80.00 and can tell you that it is strong, and will stop you.

    It's late and I'm very tired, and who knows what I might say next?

    thanks again

    Mike
     

  2. More from Last night/this morning

    Originally Posted by MotorbikeMike
    Hi Augi, I agree that the best thing for everyone would be to try to cycle out of the "China-Fire" engines.
    Grube is not a fun guy to deal with, and in my opinion disloyal to boot. I did much to help him after his split with Steve Miller (Steve of SpitFire was the first to back-door him at the factory, after first having ordered all the spare parts that Don had, Steve never discussed with Don what he was up to, just never ordered another engine.) Grube is, however the prime contact in China.

    A friend of mine and I have discussed our own line of bicycle engine kits, I am a licensed Importer, and can bring anything legal from any couintry. I would probably stay with China for the tanks, as I don't have a taiwan source for tanks, and they can be very expensive sourced from non-thirdworld nations.

    If we did create a line of kits they would be less that 2hp, and NOT assembeled in the same box from any chinese factory, as those stinking Chinamen cannot be trusted, and I would not want my product backdoored and all over ebay. Our current problem with creating a kit, is we want to mid-frame mount, and want it to look like a mottorcycle engine, and basicly there are none. The current gearboxes apparently are all bunk except Staton, and his is expensive.

    I'll try to get a shot of thet wheel today, and am interested in wheather they still make the Industrial line.

    If we are going to attract the Whizzer, and other upper line types here to this board, there will need to be no continuing "utter cheapness" discussed, and I'm sure you know who those people are. I have not sent my local customers to this board, as it would result in too much business loss, or niggling on prices, and I got to make a living, and part of it is my bike business.

    Maybe 3 catagories is good, but how will we isolate the higher-end customer from the "cheap chatter" which is counter productive, and will be boring to them?

    Mike
     
  3. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    1st...i hope you took good note of the password ;)

    2nd...by all means, let's get off the RED tit as soon as we can...i hope to get roland in here someday, after he gets up to speed with his gearbox.
     
  4. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    3rd...grube can bite my poor-boy disabled american veteran's a s s!!!
     
  5. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    I haven't read anything here that I disagree with. My politics are a bit radical. I think that all imports should be tariffed to the point that it would be profitable to make things in the US. I get tight jawed whenever I read about someone going to WallMart to buy a bike. I would not buy anything there. It's companies like that, selling the cheapest cra* possible, that have made people forget that Made In the USA stands for quality.
     
  6. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    yeah, society blames corporate america for selling out, but they sold out too.

    i have to admit that without the happy-time we wouldn't be here talking, tho...so politically, board-wise, i have to pander to the population while we figure out which is the best way to point the herd.

    i do hope you guys realize my intent is to build a think-tank that works? i told myself to quickly pick 3 randoms from my many choices, you 3 popped to the top, honestly, rif was a given, i knew i wanted guys who'd feel the same way....mike, to answer your plea for sanity...far as i know, rif's the only "hero" we got going right now, hence the password. coinkydinkly he's on a whizzer.
     
  7. Point by point discussion

    Hi Augi, and Alaska, I agree that things are a mess, and at best we can only accomplish a little.

    BUT this whole Hobby/Form of Transportation has taken a rather ugly turn to cheapness, that we never had in the early days of this MotorBicycle craze. I do wish for an affordable solution, and I think it is possible, but I suspect, that we will have to forfit the "motorcycle Look" of the engine, on the lower levels.

    There are a bunch of hot little 50cc motorcycle type engines in Europe, but geeze Guys! If you think a Whizzer is pricey, look at MotoMorini, and some of the others!

    I'm not fond of Friction Drives, as they eat tires, and thier own drive rollers.

    I think it is Golden Eagle who uses the wierd kevlar toothed belt? May work fine, but I do not want to commit the owners/riders to be stuck with a special belt.

    Bicycle chain works fine, but if we use a stationary type engine, there will be no clutch and we would either have to use a centrifigal, or a CVT.

    I'm thinking that a fractional HP v-belt, like the Whizzer uses, offers using the belt as a clutch, and does not incur the expense of CVT, nor the effiency loss (and eventual replacement) of the centrifigal unit.

    As I posted this thread, I have made a major mistake. What might that be? I have found, and did not adjust for, the fact that most people will read much, and then answer only a point or two. Therefore, I guess it is up to me to break down, one point at a time.

    IF it were possible to build a belt-drive OR a chain final, belt clutch primary, what engine would you-all choose?

    Additionally, after you answer that question, then please choose another point to discuss?

    BTW who is Roland?

    Thanks
    Mike
     
  8. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    Before I found this forum (which was after getting my Staton friction), the name "Whizzer", was something vague that I'd heard somewhere. Frankly, I thought they were no longer produced. I am still just learning about them (and wish to learn more). I'd guess that a lot of the participants at MBc don't believe they can afford one, (I have no idea of the price). So, how do you try to move people in a possitive direction? Exposure to the product is probably the most effective way (assuming that the quality is evident) (and I do, though I have never seen one in person). Stress reliability.
    For myself, I am not particular about the "Retro Look". I want something effective, reliable, and as much as possible, Made in the USA. So, do you sell Whizzer engines Mike? Perhaps you could give me details, either here or in a PM? It's late, my mind is wandering, I'd better think about sleep.
     
  9. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    we have lots of time to read and answer...this is only the get acquainted stage...

    to me, this point is about happy-time-class motoredbikes: what engine, currently available, would be the best to "present" as a viable alternative to the chinese happy-time? i'll think on that, research and give my best guess. at the moment i'm happy to see the honda-50 (and the copy for the cheapos) because it means we DO have time. i'm very interested in where your thoughts might be as to engine in the >50 class. i'm not trying to steer you away from whizzer...rif and you will be indoctrinating us to those options as time goes on.

    roland is owner of spookytoothcycles, he's announced the development of a usa-made gearbox. more on the open forumabout that.
     
  10. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    yes, the next point...is a budget-but sturdy production torque-converter a doable thing or am i just blowing smoke?
     
  11. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    I'll admit I did look closely at the MotoMorini. Presently looking at a 90cc ATV motor. But my application is different from the norm. Once the 2-strokes are phased out, the honda 50 will probably be the engine of choice. You might be able to do something to attract the "entry level young hotrodder" by offering something using a belt, that could be upgraded to a CVT. I also think the young crowd would be more interested if there were "performance options".
    My choice of a final drive would be chain.
    Another point to discuss: My main goal with these is practical cheap (long term) transportation. I'll admit I do a lot of zoomin' around on my bike, but my new trike will be for traveling on the highway. My 30 mile each way commute. There doesn't seem to be much in the forum on the subject.
     
  12. Whizzer particulars

    Hi Van, the Whizzer started in LA in 1939, was phased out by it's owners in 1965. Started again in 1999, engine pronlem fixed late 2004.

    It is 138cc 1.95 hp Flathead, with an alternator on board, it will run a 25 watt headlamp, and 6watt taillite at all times (dot standard). It will do 30 right out of the box all day long, when not broken in, a bit more as she breaks in.

    Much more power is available, (easy to hop up), drive system is either falling pulley, or centrifugal I prefer manual.

    I really like mine, far more than any other motor bicycle engine I've tried.

    Hue Shue (or whatever) 4-stroke Honda copy, (with gearbox)Spitfire 48, starfire 48, starfire 55, Skyhawk 48 RH and 60cc, and 80cc skyhawk. I also rode a Kings 80cc.

    The FoxiGT moped is very good, as is the Tomos Arrow that I'm about to sell.

    Hope this helps

    Mike
     
  13. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    mike...are you aware of the national attitude towards the 138cc motorized bicycle? do your guys generally enjoy freedom of flight or do they mostly go legal all the way? the one whizzer i know up here enjoys the same cop-indifference i do, so long as we behave ourselves on the road. i think the pedals does the trick.

    and...next point i guess?...is falling pulley a viable method for a smaller drivetrain, like 50cc on a full suspension bike?
     
  14. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    Oops, my ignorance is showing. Please describe "falling pully". Hope I don't slow you guys' thinking too much because I'm not up to speed on all developements. I do learn fast.
     
  15. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    http://www.motoredbikes.com/showpost.php?p=79244&postcount=2

    good closeups of the falling pulley clutch...it's so simple & apparently reliable as heck.

    i was thinking about some things today...about how whizzer is the caddy of motoredbikes (the oldtime caddy, mike, the good ones)...so how do we attract the demographic group that needs to be exposed to the high-end solution?

    yes!!! you may b i t c h to your heart's content about the cheapos, it's the same ones who are the most forum-trouble to me, also. i get where i would just as soon **** 'em off enuff to split...quality over quantity, we do have that going for us here.
     
  16. Falling Pulleys, and quality ideas

    Hi Van and Augi, I was reading and contemplating how and what to say about the falling pulley, came back and Augi is helping you understand. This is good.

    The falling pulley's biggest fault comes with the fact that, due to the streching of the belt, and the friction wear, the belt streaches more than one might like. It is, however, if properly set up, easy to adjust. It works well, is easily serviced, and IF properly designed, uses cheap, and readily available belts. I also use "incremental", adjuster that puts a ball bearing roller into the belt to make "on the road" adjustments easier.

    There is, also a variation on this theme, the "splitting pulley"

    The "Veteran" Motorcycles, had a single belt (requiring that the engine pulley, and rear pulley, needs to be inline), and a "long throw" lever, loading a pulley, usually up from the bottom, therefore, having more travel, and using the commonly available (at the time) Leather belt.

    The lever engaged in a series of notches, and when the belt streched/wore to being too long, the splice could be cut out, and then relaced back into the correct lenght. The single belt system would seem to release better, due to getting more slack.

    The belt system is much better than many people think it is.

    Now, how to "polish"our approach to attract, interest, and keep the Whizzer, and other higher end builders. Well this is rather simple, first what you got to do, in phase one, is exactly.......well D A N G I T I don't rightly know!

    Mike
     
  17. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    we're just like "the underpants gnomes" :lol:

    step 1-collect underpants
    step 2-
    step 3-profit

    "hey! what's step 2?"

    if you don't watch south park, you are soooo lost right now :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2007
  18. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    Well. I just spent about a half hour typing and erasing. Gotcha on the pulley Augie, thanks. I think I'll try getting some thoughts organized before I bother you guys with them. If I can come up with anything I feel has value, I'll copy it in here somewhere.
     
  19. Whizzers and Freedom

    Hi Augi, in several states no registration, in several the Whizzer is a Moped, and in some it is considered a Motor-Driven Cycle. Here in CA (usually one of the most strict states) MANY Whizzers run with no plates. This Saturday, I will try to get a "census" without asking/offending owners, by just looking at the bikes, and scoping out plates. I do not remember many plates, and we will ride, town and country, straight pipes, and megaphones, in a large group.

    My Webmaster has been riding his Whizzer, in Sacramento, put about 5,000 miles since last summer, all with no plate. The dealer in Folsom (famous for the "Folsom Prison") has no plate. I can't remember who else off the bat. Wifey's bike, and my red Whizzer are plated, but I put about 400-500 miles on the 08 with open megaphone, and no paint, with no plate.

    Hard to say how many people have not taken advantage of the plate, which was 5.00 when it started, and is now 18.00.

    Mike
     
  20. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    thanks for the "study"...that will be interesting.

    another primer-question: is whizzer prepared for, or even interested in, our dream-world?

    stock production models: have they ever run out of a year? ever been stuck with surplus? by how much?
     
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