Lets get rid of the 3 piece crank permanently

Discussion in 'Frame Mounted Engines' started by Irish John, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Is anyone out there happy with these 3 piece cranks being fobbed on customers who exclusively use the kits for cruiser bikes that cannot take a 3 piece crank without an expensive adaptor? Then the lovely 1\2" block pedals from a Schwinn wont fit the crank arms so we have to lose our nice pedals and buy inferior 9\16" ones. The problems and expense are totally unnecessary when the old 1 piece crank fitted so well on any cruiser with a 1 piece bottom bracket and didn't involve extra expense. To add insult to injury the 3 piece looks so disgusting when installed. By all means offer the 3 piece as an optional extra but not as standard because it isn't what is required 90% of the time.
    Has anyone got any ideas as to how Grubee can be made to understand that people don't like these silly cranks and to reinstate the 1 piece as standard in all kits?
    Am I right when I say that Birddog got Grubee to make this change and if so why can't Birddog pull their finger out and get the situation rectified?
    How can a Company in Montana stuff up the lives of all Grubee kit buyers worldwide? Lets get this injustice fixed and lets get Birddog to fix it.

  2. Ghost0

    Ghost0 Guest

    I personally don't mind the 3 piece. I agree it lacks a little in the aesthetics department but I think the ability to use higher quality parts including cranks, pedals and bearings makes it an option. And now that we (SBP) are sourcing our own conversion kits it is not that expensive to change ($20 including the bearing set). I do agree though that it should be an option. Let the customer make the choice.

    I think the long term solution though is a smaller, and better, gear box that will allow the use of a normal width BB assembly. Then we will all be happy.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2009
  3. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    They both have their own place & it's good to give ppl a choice,however i'de like to see the 1 piece become more widely known & MUCH more readily available ...........buy/stock more 1 piece's.
  4. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    A normal width BB is not going to happen on the 4-stroke Ghost unless it is a special HT type 4-stroke which wouldn't be worth buying cos it would be the quality of the HT 2-stroke. Your theory about choice of bearings is not really correct. The $60 French adaptor comes with it's own bearings so there is no choice but I've been replacing the bearings on the 1 piece with heavy duty larger bearings because the standard Schwinn bearings cannot take the increased force caused by the extra leverage from the wide crank. I have never used the bearings that come with the kits. To say that the 3 piece increases your choice re crank arms and pedals is not true about pedals because the good pedals that came with a good cruiser cannot be used for reasons stated above and you cannot buy aftermarket Schwinn block pedals so have to buy something inferior. Maybe it increases your choice of crank arms but why would a sane person put expensive alloy crank arms on that disgusting crank shaft. From everything you say it seems to show pretty clearly that the 3 piece greatly diminishes your choice and puts you to great expense. The one piece is strong with nice long crank arms and takes the lovely Schwinn pedals off their expensive bike brands. The heavy duty bearings are only a couple of dollars and sometimes a shop will do a straight swap for your old bearings.
    But by all means offer the 3 piece as an optional extra because the pubertal novices who mount these motors in their MTB will need it but do not make it the kit standard when it doesn't fit the cruiser type frame that is suppose to host the 4-stroke. That is what I'm saying and seeing as Birddog caused the problem why can't Birddog fix the problem. Why can't they appologise for the trouble they have caused worldwide?
  5. biketec

    biketec Member

    We have 100 1pc cranks coming soon with the next order, All the next mounting kits coming on that container are coming with 1pc instead of 3.

    The reasoning behind the 3pc is we tried to make the kit a more universal kit as you can always reduce size but not enlarge, so we figured it would benefit the people but instead it has created more of a problem with SOME. All kits in the future will include 1pc cranks after these kits are gone, But I'm thinking by then it will be G4 time.

    Why are we using a company name that has no relevance? It's B-E.com who is the vendor not BDD.com
  6. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Don Grube calls them Birddog so that is the name I used. It was also the name on my credit card statement when I bought stuff from B-E.Com.
    It is not just an inconvenience to SOME Biketec, it is an inconvenience to by far the greater majority accross the globe.
    It has been a total disaster and has cost customers dearly but at least it is now being very slowly rectified. Maybe you will order enough cranks this time so those unfortunates who had to install the 3 piece during the disaster period will be able to replace them. The 5 extra one piece cranks I bought from you last year went a long time ago and it took me a long time to find the only factory in China that makes them.
  7. lordoflightaz

    lordoflightaz Member

    One or three I don't care. The sprocket that came with fits like **** on the shaft, of course it could just be that I don't know what I am doing.

    We drilled a hole and put an allen screw in the sprocket to get it to tighten up. Not all that happy with the little short crank arms that came with it either. Much prefer the arms that came with the shift kit.
  8. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    You say "one or three I don't care" but it seems you do care about those ridiculous short crank arms that make you look silly when you try and pedal fast and make pedalling up hill 30% harder. I certainly care about being treated like some idiot who would accept that sort of crud without protesting.
  9. lordoflightaz

    lordoflightaz Member

    OK, I do care that the arms were short.

    The SBP arms are not too short, they are just the right size. So when I order the shift kit for this bike, they will work out just fine.
  10. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    That's Ok for a shift kit but shift kits make the bike illegal in a lot of places because they constitute gears on the engine. Just ask in any reputeable bike shop and show them the short crank and ask them if they think it is any good and then tell us what they tell you. I know they wont tell you that the crank is anything but a useless piece of junk and certainly isn't designed to be pedalled. I think you might have your balaclava on backwards or maybe you have a different crank to the one the rest of us get with the Grubee kit. This thread is about 4-strokes and SBP shifter kits don't fit 4-strokes.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2009
  11. biketec

    biketec Member

    Crazy question, why would it matter long or short if your not going to be peddling? Were talkin a motor kit for a bicycle! Seems to me you shouldn't be peddling.

    Regardless of protest or publicly announcing your dislike things happen for one reason or another, Like I said it was an idea for making the kits more universal (thinking of the consumer), It didn't work out the way we would have liked it to.

    Really I see no need for this thread to be honest, I listen to my customers and know issues when I see them. You obviously know where they came from and how to contact those people, That's not on a public internet forum that does positive things for the motor bike community and is here to help.

    The only thing that CAN be done HAS been done WHEN it could be done.

    The new kits and parts are coming.
  12. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    With all due respect, particularly as a vendor, the above statement seems not only ridiculous but a form of self-serving denial.

    This is a motorized bicycle forum, not a motorcycle site. As a vendor you should be supportive of that fact and like a doctor first do no harm.
    The ability to pedal is not just a legal requirement in all 50 US states but if MBs are to remain legal and not overly regulated then the emphasis has to be MAB/ PAB, motor assisted bicycle/power assisted bicycle.

    For you to fit your agenda to your product line does the MB movement more harm than good.
  13. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Some of us need to pedal because the law stipulates all sorts of requirements - that the engine not exceed 50cc and 200 Watts (the Honda is easily 1600 Watts output) and pedalling attracts less atention from police and thus pospones the fast approaching day when the Honda becomes totally illegal.

    We know why this happened Biketec but I would have liked to have heard an honest answer - more along the lines of someone thinking 'great with a 3 piece we'll flog these kits to all the MTB owners even though they don't fit those bikes and make a killing and our tills will be rattling so fast we'll have even less time to think about our service provision'. Who thought about the obvious fact that the 4-stroke kits are meant to go on cruiser frames? Nobody it seems. This startlingly obvious fact was obscured by the vision of rattling tills.

    Really? I think this Forum has been really soft on the dunderhead suppliers who created these problems - crank problems, no-brainer cable-controlled chokes that take up room in the most critical part of the frame etc. If this Forum showed the teeth that it is capable of using to protect the unsuspecting consumer from the ignorance and greed of systemic incompetence from suppliers we'd have got together to make those suppliers so aware of their stupid decisions that their tills would be rusting from lack of use.

    You mean what WAS done in ignorance and incompetence is slowly being undone. I don't mean to be unduly harsh here but I'm sick of the trouble that's been caused and it disappoints me to see that the supplier isn't big enough to apologise for the trouble and expense that's been caused to the consumers. It is a suppliers job to know the product and whoever was responsible for the disaster at B-E.Com needs to get off their chair and try building these kits so they can talk knowledgeably about the stuff they are selling. And before I go I'd like to say that the suppliers have been getting away far too lightly on MBc for the last 18 months to the point where it is beginning to read like a sickening suppliers brown-nosing club.
    I'm glad I've finally said this because it was late coming - like B-Es last shipment!
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2009
  14. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    For me, the pedals, like my manhood, are purely ornamental.

    ...but I understand that other have use for them.....both of the things I mentioned.
  15. lordoflightaz

    lordoflightaz Member

    I don't know the history of the crank in kits. I assume that with the addition of the pull start and the automatic clutch a need was created to include a way for the pedal to continue to work. I am also guessing that someone came up with putting a crank set in the kit. First with the single crank arm and then with the 3 piece setup.

    I am glad "something" came with my kit. At least I don't have to go searching for something so that my motor works and my pedals work.

    Relate this to the the motor mount "T thingy" I guess that it work and fills a need, but livefast has their improved mount and sick bike parts just came out with theirs. Both of which work better than the thing that comes in the kit. This holds true for the hardware kits, the replacement mufflers, the OCC kits. and the things that are made by "Creative Engineering"

    I don't see this as being any different than all the stuff you can add to an ATV or car. K&N, Cragar, Dashmat all make great add ons for cars. Look at "Bike Products" and what they sell.

    I would like to see more add on products being sold, how about a light kit powered by the white wire, 45 degree horizontal precision intake manifolds, chrome covers, chain tensioners, the clamshell sprocket attachment and exhaust kits.

    SBP just breaks the ice with their product line.

    Ford used to make a car and you could get it in any color, as long as it was black. Ford later came up with "mystic paint", which I just saw available at Checker Auto the other day.

    I noticed if you go to one of the engine makers sites that they will sell the gas tank in a whole bunch of colors, all we can seem to get is black or chrome.

    Back in the day I ordered my Ford Bronco from the factory, with the options I wanted, including black paint in AZ, which automatically meant I would have to wait. So I was willing th wait 6 weeks for it to be built and shipped from the factory and then have the dealer put on the custom rims and tires that we also picked.

    Too the point it is good that the motors that need a wider crank come with one. I just want a place to buy a better option.

    I still don't know if I put the crank on right and have yet to figure out which way a balaclava goes on.

    So be happy and ride it.
  16. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Lordoflightaz, I don't know if you are new to this Forum but this thread comes under 4-strokes and we are NOT talking about 2-strokes here although we are talking about the 4-stroke suppliers who also supply 2-strokes. All that SBP stuff relates to 2-strokes and would be better posted on a thread in the 2-stroke section.
    We aren't talking about add-ons either we are talking about how one supplier caused a lot of trouble and, for myself because I buy a lot of kits, a great deal of unnecessary expense because they got the manufacturer to change the standard crank that nearly everyone was happy with to a disgusting 3 piece that requires a lot of additional expense to fit on a cruiser. Cruisers are the bikes that 4-strokes require as a host but the supplier thought that with the 3 piece they could sell the kits to all the owners of unsuitable bikes and make a lot of money in the process. The suppliers assertion above that the motive was an altruistic one so that more people could enjoy the pleasure of their 4-stroke kits is not only dishonest but should be exposed for the guff & snash that it is. They soon realised that this move was a blunder and decided to try and change the cranks back but all this takes about 12 months and they have NEVER owned this bluder, taken responsibility for it or apologised to the market upon whom they inflicted additional expense and a lot of inconvenience. You need to know a bit about the history of the 4-stroke kit as well as the history of this Forum and how the biggest shifter kit ever known has been used to shift what was once a bona fide Forum of consumers helping other consumers to a Forum of suppliers all agreeing not to mention the unsavoury aspects of their market practices and brown-nosing each other. It's time for older members to speak up about this and to try and keep this Forum focussed on the consumer's interests and to let the suppliers know that the customer doesn't like being exploited and especially bull**itted to.
  17. biketec

    biketec Member

    WOW really!
  18. lordoflightaz

    lordoflightaz Member

    its the same crank on a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke

    accessories are accessories there should be more in general

    but I will shut up and let you continue your crusade to make half a (delete self censoring)
  19. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    Howz about we all take a step back.....BE.com has acknowledged their new shipment is ALL 1 piece so that in itself sayes something.
  20. biketec

    biketec Member

    Thank you Fet my thoughts exactly.